Episode 4: Sarah Anderson of SarahMarieAnderson.com

Trailer

Mar 13

Episode 4 Show Notes:

[00:00:02] Tori: Welcome to the happier in business podcast, the only podcast that explores what makes entrepreneurs and small business owners happiest, and how to achieve that happiness in their business by asking real entrepreneurs and business owners at every level. I'm your host, Tori Cox, and today we are talking to, my good friend is Sarah Marie Anderson of SarahMarieAnderson.com.

[00:00:27] Sarah is an email strategist and copywriter for course creators, coaches, and service providers with bold digital brands. She helps ambitious entrepreneurs go from stressing over what to send to their email list to having powerful emails locked in, whether you want to welcome fresh subscribers, boost your engagement, or drive more sales from email.

[00:00:45] Sarah can help with top shelf email marketing strategy and copywriting. And if you can't tell from her bio, Sarah is an amazing copywriter and one of my first real friends in this online business world. I can't wait for you to meet her.

[00:01:00]

Sarah on what she loves about business, hates about business, and wishes people would talk about [00:01:00]

[00:01:00]Sarah Marie Anderson: [00:01:02] And it's just like one of the things that I'm trying to also be a little bit more transparent and I think that's what you're trying to do with this podcast is like, and not have me like come on and just like present the best version of myself. It's like, no, this is a whole, you know? Yeah. The whole version of the business, you know, it's not as pretty as it looks from the outside, cause it never is.

[00:01:23] Tori Cox: [00:01:23] Right it never is! Can we please just put that as like intro to this podcast? I wish somebody had told me how hard it was going to be because then I feel like I wouldn't have thought it was hard because I sucked. And I did for so long.

[00:01:37] I thought it sucked because I suck. Not because it just kind of sucks sometimes,

[00:01:42] Yeah. Or that it's just hard for anyone to grow any kind of business and that's what you're doing.

[00:01:48]So the first question, what do you love about your business?

[00:01:54]Sarah Marie Anderson: [00:01:54]

[00:01:54] So this is kind of like a silly one cause it's so trivial. But I think like, one of the favorite things about working for myself [00:02:00] is not having to commute and getting to work at home and hang out with my cat all day. Like, cause my, my last job was, um. It was, I was like a substitute librarian. And so like I would go to Lake libraries all across my County and like sometimes I would have to drive for like 45 minutes in the snow and I was just like, hate it.

[00:02:21] So I'm like, I love getting to work from home and just having the commute be like, just. A couple of steps to my desk and I'm at work. It's easy. And if I need some relief in the middle of the day, I can go find my cat and like have a little snuggle. And just, I love that. And I love when there's bad weather cause we get snow here in Colorado.

[00:02:42] We've had snow all week and I've been like, I don't have to worry about cleaning off my car to get to work at like eight in the morning.

[00:02:49]Tori Cox[00:02:49] so what do you absolutely abhor about your business.

[00:02:55] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:02:55] I think it's a me problem and it's something I'm working on, but it's managing myself and like being an actual good boss to myself. Cause I think I'm kind of a terrible boss where I'm like, why aren't you doing this thing? And then like, kind of screwing around and like looking at Facebook and stuff when I should be working.

[00:03:10] And then me as a boss is mad, but there's no consequences ever. Cause I'm like, I'm not going to fire myself. I'm the boss. So this is learning how to manage myself and my time is something that I like. It's gotten better, but it's something that I still am working on, like trying to figure out the best ways to work with my energy and like the work I do and being more efficient in all the ways it can.

[00:03:32] but I think we see so many people that make it sound like it's an overnight thing, you know? Or like you can do it. And, or there are like people like Ash Ambirge, who we both really admire, who went from like $26 in the back of her car, like sleeping in her car to make it $100,000 her first year of business.

[00:03:51] And then that is like an extraordinary person that makes it seem like it's. Like doable and possible for everyone, but it's like not the norm and it's, I [00:04:00] felt, I spent so long feeling bad that I hadn't had that kind of success, you know, years into my business. Cause it's like, what's wrong with me?

[00:04:07]Other owners misrepresenting their numbers- and the usefulness of income reports [00:04:07]

[00:04:07]Tori Cox[00:04:07] Oh. Which brings us into that whole like topic of people lying about their numbers.

[00:04:13] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:04:13] I was going to bring up that that person, that screenshot you sent me of that person's expenses

[00:04:19] Tori Cox[00:04:19] yeah. I probably shouldn't say who it is, but okay. So this person on Facebook posted their expenses and it was like their top 10 expenses, and I was looking at them and they had their merchant fees on there, and it was like.

[00:04:33] This number does not match up. Like I knew looking at it like gut instinct, like if that's all you paid to process payments, then you didn't make any money. These numbers don't make sense. And I did the math and I was like, unless they're literally, unless they are. Pulling in dollars through something besides Stripe or PayPal or, I mean, you'd literally have to have people like writing you a check, you know, which know, like who's doing that?

[00:04:58] Or even doing like online checks, like nobody in online business is using that really either for eCommerce. Like we don't have eCommerce

[00:05:07] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:05:07] not yet. Not for courses and e-commerce and things like that. You'd buy as an individual,

[00:05:13] Tori Cox[00:05:13] Yeah. Like you don't want to make people go find their checkbook before they can digitally check out. Like that's not

[00:05:19] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:05:19] Or wait like three days before they, you can like give them the thing to make sure the check clears,

[00:05:25] Tori Cox[00:05:25] yeah, exactly. None of this makes any sense. So, and it was looking at it and like the numbers that she posted, but she only paid like less than $6,000 in fees. And it's like, if you do the math

[00:05:35] that means you didn't make enough money to even cover those expenses. And that I thought was interesting cause there was like a big name person and they didn't post that they didn't like actually have any profit that year. Like no they just said, Hey look at how much I paid. And it's like, well that's an interesting way to like cherry pick that data.

[00:05:53] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:05:53] and it was almost like they're posted it sort of like a humble brag,

[00:05:57] Tori Cox[00:05:57] Oh 100% it was a humblebrag. [00:06:00] Yeah.

[00:06:00] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:06:00] they're like, look at how

[00:06:01] Tori Cox[00:06:01] how much money I can pay

[00:06:02] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:06:02] business. Yeah. It was just like, it seems like. When I had, and looking at it without your context at it, like I would have thought like, wow, they're like really rolling in it.

[00:06:12] Like they must be manking bank to be spending this much. I'm like, all this stuff that they have in their business, and then you're like, Oh, wait a sec.

[00:06:20]Tori Cox[00:06:20] It was totally, a humblebrag and it's literally people showing up with a car that they like can't actually afford and like you find out they actually like their lease payment is as much as they're like rent or mortgage. Like they're not telling you

[00:06:33] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:06:33] Or like these influencers who just like pose with private planes or, you know, cars and things. Yeah,

[00:06:42] Tori Cox[00:06:42] and they have , literally online, you can find places where you can rent. Those kinds of things for photo shoots, like, yeah, it's not as expensive as it seems. It's just all about that like image

[00:06:54]Sarah Marie Anderson[00:06:54] I know this used to be a thing a few years ago that people would post these income reports and I would see them a lot. And I think when I was getting started, I would get like kind of obsessed with following them. Well, it , it doesn't ever seem like anyone was posting income reports from like when they were losing money or when they were starting out or when they weren't making it, like what would drive, what would get me is like people would have these income reports and they would show like how much they got paid with like affiliate stuff.

[00:07:22] And I'd be like, Oh my gosh, that's like they got paid by Bluehost more than I made in like a whole month last month. You know? And that's just like one line item and you know that. And I did it.

[00:07:34] Yeah. But I didn't even realize like looking back at it now, it's like, okay, that was how they were marketing stuff.

[00:07:39] Like that's how like posting these income reports as a way to like market more of these affiliate things. It wasn't just like, Oh, I just want to like show you, you know how I'm operating

[00:07:49] Tori Cox[00:07:49] Out of the goodness of my heart. Yeah.

[00:07:52] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:07:52] Or just to like show off. Yeah. It's like, no, it's like a buzzy thing. People want to like, if people are so interested in numbers and it gets [00:08:00] clicks and gets a lot of traffic and yeah.

[00:08:03] Tori Cox[00:08:03] Yeah. I think that like I learned eventually to see if they had breaks in the income reports because I noticed that almost everybody would, or they'd have like a like good quarter and they do like three and then they'd quit. And like most people don't actually post them all the time or. Like accounting background, right?

[00:08:23] Like they'd have so many asterisks like, Oh, we didn't include what we we spent on Facebook ads? And it's like, what do you mean you didn't include what you spent on Facebook ads? That's like a huge expense. You can't just like not include it, you know? Like that doesn't make any sense. Or they would only release it once they hit some huge number and it's like, okay, well what about like literally the entire last 12 months?

[00:08:46] Like I would love to know not, what did your income look like the month you finally hit like, you know, making the equivalent of like six figures, but what did it look like 12 months ago? You know, like what did that one look like? That's what I would actually find interesting now. But early Tori did not know that.

[00:09:05] And also I don't think that I would have cared cause I'd have been like, Oh, it's totally possible. It's totally possible to do this in just a couple months, you know.

[00:09:10] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:09:10] Right? And that's what I would use them as, like a way to like kind of, uh, either like prop myself up or beat myself down. Like be like, Oh my gosh, look at them making all this money and like, they're doing the same kind of thing as I am doing, you know, they're doing services or a lot of them were doing like courses and stuff and they were huge and they'd been doing it for years, but it didn't.

[00:09:31] I didn't know that cause I was like so naive and new to this online business world and like you said that they would skip. I never even notice. Like I just see like, Oh, on Pinterest, here's a new like income report. Let me check it out. And I didn't like go back all through and see that they were pretty much like cherry picking things to just show off.

[00:09:48] Yeah. The best. Just show the best part of it.

[00:09:51] Tori Cox[00:09:51] Yeah. Can you think of anybody that you think maybe doesn't cherry pick

[00:09:56]https://www.mirandanahmias.com/category/monthly-reports/

[00:09:57] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:09:57] I don't know if I can think of anyone that [00:10:00] does. Oh, I could. I think her name is Miranda Nahmias or something like, she was doing them a long time ago and I remember her like early on, had some where she'd made like $300 in a month, you know, like

[00:10:13] Tori Cox[00:10:13] Wow. That's amazing.

[00:10:16] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:10:16] And she was like, like all along, like from the very beginning, I don't know if she still does them, but this was like years, a couple of years ago, that I would see her as and be like, okay, wow.

[00:10:24] Like, she's actually like making stuff. And she would, she like kind of started creating an agency and then would say like how much she was paying to her team members. So it was like, Oh yeah, I have my business made $10,000 but you know, I spent like 4,000 on team payments or something. You know, like, so it was

[00:10:42] Tori Cox[00:10:42] well, that's the other thing, right? Like I've seen a lot of income reports that are really revenue reports, and there's a big difference between revenue and profit. And I like, sure, you might've had a, you know, $60,000 launch, but if you spent $30,000 on advertising, and then you pay the team to make it all.

[00:11:05] Like, you might not actually have that much at the end of the month.

[00:11:08] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:11:08] Yeah. But also for launches, like are you reserving or reporting how much you had in refund requests? Like that's the other thing too, that if you're like sharing it just after the launch and you have like a 12 month payment plan, what about the people that request refunds or default on it?

[00:11:24] Like, and you're reporting it like I have it all in the bank and it's

[00:11:28] Tori Cox[00:11:28] Yeah, that's true. I forgot that you pointed that out to me originally that you'd seen a lot of people who would say that they like, you know, booked like $20,000 but what they really meant was people had signed up for projects. They would amount to $20,000 eventually,

[00:11:43] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:11:43] Like say, Oh, I had a $20,000 a month, but it could be like six months of work that would be to like fulfill that. And so it's actually like spaced out over several

[00:11:52] Tori Cox[00:11:52] isn't that much over six months.

[00:11:54] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:11:54] Is it booked or is it banked? You know, like,

[00:11:57] Tori Cox[00:11:57] Oh, I like that. Is it booked or is it banked? I [00:12:00] think we should. Uh, I might turn that one into an Instagram post. Like that's good cause yeah. I mean there's a huge difference. And like, I wish somebody texted me about that because that really would've helped me.

[00:12:10] Like. Figure out how to pay my bills. Like what to actually expect. I mean, thank God it started my business in Ohio because like, you know, living there for those years where things were so cheap, you know, like I'm a West Coaster. Things are not cheap here, but like in Ohio, my rent, my half of the rent was $400 like.

[00:12:32] That is, I mean, even that person who like, you know, had that like $300 a month, like that almost pays for it. It's like, you know, they like, it's just a wasn't that expensive, but I think that I saw this stuff and I thought I would grow really, really fast eventually. You know, like it wasn't like, Oh, it's going to be a consistent growth.

[00:12:53] I was like, no, it's just going to stay flat and then it'll skyrocket.

[00:12:56] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:12:56] That hockey stick growth, like that's what we're all looking for is it's like, Oh yeah. It's just like, this is like the dip. Like Seth Godin has that book about the dip where like, Oh yeah, this is the low point. Like this is, you know, it's gonna shoot up from here. But it's like, it kind of just goes sort of up and down a lot.

[00:13:11] Like, I don't know. That's been it. What's been for me that it's been, yeah.

[00:13:15] Tori Cox[00:13:15] Yeah, I've pulled my like actual, like all, every dime I make goes into the same bank account and I have pulled it and done graphs on years and like, well, not years actually, but like months and weeks and days, and on all of those timescales it is so, up and down. I think that whenever my, like worst month was, I want to say it was like.

[00:13:36] 800 bucks or something like that, but also, I don't think I worked most of it.

[00:13:42] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:13:42] Yeah.

[00:13:44] Tori Cox[00:13:44] Yeah. And I feel like there's a difference there too. Right? Like, like, what's the worst month? I feel like a better question would be, what is the least I ever made while working really hard to make money?

[00:13:55] Not just like, okay, like I literally went to Europe for three and a half weeks. Like, yeah, I didn't make a bunch of money. Then. Like [00:14:00] I didn't talk to anybody and I didn't bill anything. Like. Those are two different numbers as well, like input versus outputs and, yeah. And nobody's like putting on their income reports, like, Hey, I'm totally admitting we made nothing because we literally checked out, you know,

[00:14:16] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:14:16] Or, or we worked like extra overtime and we still had a really low month. Like just stuff fell through. Things that didn't come together. Yeah.

[00:14:26] Tori Cox[00:14:26] Well, I think that too actually is something I wish that somebody had told me before because a lot of the time, like, okay, so you have, you know, a certain number of consultations or something and only some of them will convert at all. Right? Like they'll purchase at all, but a lot of the time they won't buy the same time you meet them.

[00:14:46] They won't buy the, like I've had people where I knew him for a couple of months before they bought something from me. Um. And I don't usually like plan on that. You know, it wasn't like, like, Oh, I have like 10 consultations. I'm totally set for the month. And it's like, well, no, you're probably be set this quarter if you keep that up.

[00:15:05] But it doesn't mean you just get to like quit marketing right now. Like nothing. Nothing. If there's one thing I wish I could like burn into my brain and actually truly believe is like nothing means that you get to quit marketing

[00:15:15] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:15:15] Yeah. No, that is like the thing that is like a recurring lesson that I keep learning that I'm trying to finally like let it sink in and stick because that has been my story for a long time where I would have like really up high months, where I'd be really busy with client work and I just be working on client work.

[00:15:32] And then the next month when that project's over, I haven't been marketing. I have a really low month cause like it's just that like kind of feast and famine

[00:15:39] Tori Cox[00:15:39] or famine.

[00:15:40] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:15:40] into. Yeah.

[00:15:41] Tori Cox[00:15:41] Yeah. Yeah. And it's so easy to do because it's so easy to not market when you're so busy with other stuff.

[00:15:49] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:15:49] Yeah.

[00:15:51] Tori Cox[00:15:51] and the stuff can Pile. You know, like today when I was working on my Instagram, I literally was like obsessive [00:16:00] checking my email, hoping that, somebody would just like have something like some urgent question, like, please, please save me from this hell scape.

[00:16:08] I don't want to be doing this anymore. Like, please let me know that there's any reason that I could just jump ship, you know? Which is ridiculous. But like, I just, it's like self-sabotaging.

[00:16:17]Prioritizing Working "On" The Business [00:16:17]

[00:16:17] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:16:17] Yeah, I totally get it. And I feel like that a lot of times when it comes to like working on my own stuff, like I have been like, I have packages, like new packages, services and stuff in my mind that have been like in my mind for like six months that I'm just like, I don't want to do it, but I do want to do it, but I'm like, find every other distraction to like keep from doing this.

[00:16:37] Like. Vital business work, like stuff that I need to do on my business. I'm just like, yeah, can I take like another quick project? Sure. I'll do that. Like I can do quick turn around, like,

[00:16:47] Tori Cox[00:16:47] money in the bank. Why not?

[00:16:49] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:16:49] I'll do that. And then, but I'm just, it's like the longterm look of my business of like, do I like to have things change?

[00:16:55] Like I have to do this work and prioritize that work, um, in a way that I haven't in the past.

[00:17:01] Tori Cox[00:17:01] Very good. Yeah. Prioritizing it, I think is really like, that's my, it's so easy for me to get distracted.

[00:17:07] By by. Like valid things that things that like if you talk to somebody who didn't run their own business, they want to be like, Oh no, really, you need, you need to focus on your stuff first and then respond to these emails or you need to do this and then you can deal with that.

[00:17:21] Cause honestly like, I don't know about you, but like how often are there emergencies, like honest to God client emergencies for you?

[00:17:29] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:17:29] I like this thing that one of my mentors says that there's no such thing as a copy emergency. Like there really is not any urgent copy that needs to be taken care of right now, like everything, you know, can wait till I'm back in the office or back, you know, client time, client days.

[00:17:47] Tori Cox[00:17:47] Yeah. Where, I mean, websites I think are like a little different in that like you could actually have an

[00:17:52] emergency. However, that's why I build on Squarespace because it's so much harder to do and like. I can't even think of [00:18:00] five examples of like honest to god emergencies. Like to me, anything that like means you're not going to make money is an emergency. And, but I mean, luckily with Squarespace you, it's also like. It's not usually stuff that they couldn't just talk to somebody on the phone and walk them through in like three minutes.

[00:18:17] Like, yes, they might have an emergency. Also, they could call me. It's not an email emergency, like there's no email emergencies.

[00:18:26] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:18:26] Yeah. That you need to be like constantly checking your inbox to be like, yeah, I might need to be called away from Instagram writing like any second now.

[00:18:33] Tori Cox[00:18:33] Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like, or, Oh man, I really hate laundry. Like, let's go see if anybody needs anything on like email, which I do. That kind of stuff. Do you like all or on the weekends when I just like, Oh, I should probably find something to do with myself,

[00:18:48] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:18:48] Yeah.

[00:18:50] Tori Cox[00:18:50] my email,

[00:18:50]Love Hate Relationship with Email [00:18:50]

[00:18:50] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:18:50] Yeah. Okay. I do that too. And I like, I'll try and like, it kinda hate myself for doing it and I'm trying to like not do it when I'm just like trying to relax, watch TV. And I mostly pull my email and see if there's anything due. Maybe I've got like a client inquiry or something and like, let me check it out on this Saturday afternoon.

[00:19:07] It's like, it'll be there when you get back.

[00:19:10] Tori Cox[00:19:10] Yeah, it's so hard. But also I'm like, well, this is my life though. Like I think that's like, that's the other thing. Okay. Like nobody's talking about the constant battle between like, no, I love my business. I want to be in it. And also like, no, I do need to be a human too. Like I can't just like never check my email on a weekend ever because my business is my baby and that is crazy.

[00:19:32] Like I'm never going to do it. But also like, I don't need to check it 17 times a day either. Like there's. There's some kind of spectrum there that's healthy. And I've definitely been on like either side of it so

[00:19:43] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:19:43] Yeah, and I think this is where like, it's not bad to check your email on the weekend, it's just that there's so much about self care and unplugging and stuff that I like start to feel guilty about it. But it's like if I choose to check my email like once and I want to, what's the matter with [00:20:00] that?

[00:20:00] I think it's about your mindset and your attitude towards it. Like if you're feeling like, Oh gosh, I'm in my inbox all the time and I never get away from it. Like, and that's probably a thing where we maybe need some boundaries, but if it's just like, Oh, I'm bored, I want to see what's going on in my business, like let's go check out that, like, then that's okay.

[00:20:16] Tori Cox[00:20:16] Yeah. Yeah. I think my boredom though, I feel like I don't know when I'm doing it because of like my business or when I'm doing it because I don't know what else to do with my life because I make my life, my business.

[00:20:30] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:20:30] Oh my gosh. That's the same for me. Like I, I have a hard time on the weekend. Like even taking weekends is like a conscious thing though. I started a few months ago that like, okay, I'm taking two days off, like from working that I'm just not, you know, not committing to doing stuff. Like, cause that was for me so long, I was just like, all the time I need to work.

[00:20:49] Like I need to be doing more. Um. But yeah, it's, when I'm off, I, I sometimes struggle with like, okay, what am I actually going to do today? Like even like, sometimes I'll do stuff I like doing, like it was like, okay, I made cookies already. Okay. Like, I went to the gym. Okay. Like, what else do I want to do? I read a book, like,

[00:21:08] Tori Cox[00:21:08] Huh? Like, the house is clean. I don't have a book I'm in the middle of yet. Like I'm not in the middle of a show. Like there's no obvious, like, go do this thing. And then I'm like, maybe I'll go do this with my business instead. Like, yeah. And where it's like. I have a hard time. I think knowing when that, when I would actually be happy with that decision versus when I wouldn't and when I should just go get a life, you know?

[00:21:37] Like when do you just go get a life?

[00:21:40]Making Friends and Getting a Life [00:21:40]

[00:21:40] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:21:40] And how do you start getting to life when you haven't had one for so long and it's just been online for so long? That's the thing, like, I don't even have that many, like real life in-person friends. Like a lot of my friends are far-flung all over the world and I just talked to them on zoom calls and emails and

[00:21:57] Voxer, you know?

[00:21:58] And [00:22:00] it's like, it's hard when you're like an adult and you're just like, how do I actually meet people to make friends now. Like.

[00:22:07] Tori Cox[00:22:07] No. Cause all of my friends meet their friends at work. Like I don't have work

[00:22:16] Exactly. Yes.

[00:22:20] Yeah. Like I can't just be like, Hey Sarah, you want to meet up at coffee shop? Like I want 100% would do that all the time. Also, you're too far away. We can't do it. Yeah, it's it. Yeah. I don't know. Like I am so bad at making friends. I have discovered, you know, that. Like I moved away from all the people that I grew up with, like I have friends.

[00:22:41] I just made them in middle school and high school and college when I was forced to be around people for long periods of time.

[00:22:49] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:22:49] Yeah. I don't know either cause that's like the friends I have around here were people that I met at my last job and like, since I don't work with them anymore, I just see them on Facebook mostly. You know, it's like you don't even have that like connection as much as I used to. Um, and maybe that's just like.

[00:23:06] The things of being like the realities of being an adult that like, you know, to actually like spend the time to go out and like make plans with someone is a lot of effort and work and we just don't do it that often. Like I have one friend who I met through my business, I met her through a mastermind, but she lives locally in Denver and we like go and hang out like every couple months.

[00:23:26] But it's so funny that I met her through work, you know, basically through my business. I was like, how do you make friends other than that? I guess you have hobbies that like you go to like classes and things, but like a lot of my hobbies are very solitary.

[00:23:41]Mindfulness: The Entrepreneurial Hobby [00:23:41]

[00:23:41]Tori Cox[00:23:41] Well, actually, like what other hobbies do you have other than knitting? Like are they all just solitary, do you think?

[00:23:46] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:23:46] Yeah. So I've been going to the gym. I go to the Y, I go to Zoomba a lot and yoga sometimes. And I have met some people through the gym, but it's just like my gym friends, you know, just like see them at the gym. I haven't [00:24:00] like said like, Hey, do you want to get coffee or something yet? But, um, that's definitely something I could do.

[00:24:05] Um, what other hobbies do I have? I have, Oh.

[00:24:10] I don't know if this is a hobby but like a I'm into like meditation and also that kind of like mindfulness stuff so I do

[00:24:19] Tori Cox[00:24:19] I feel like that's an entrepreneurial answer to what is my hobby

[00:24:23] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:24:23] Mindfulness is my hobby. It Totally is You know that it's just like

[00:24:29] Tori Cox[00:24:29] Yeah Like that's how far disconnected we are from like just having things we do for fun

[00:24:36] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:24:36] It's like I do this thing because it makes me a better business person you know

[00:24:42] Tori Cox[00:24:42] Yeah so it's my hobby now.

[00:24:47]Sarah Marie Anderson[00:24:47] Like I never meditated before I tried this like specific kind of meditation It's called Ziva meditation if anyone's curious but she talks about the the person that teaches it Her name's Emily Fletcher Um She talks about how a deep meditation is no different than a shallow meditation.

[00:25:03] And it's okay to have thoughts during meditation Cause I think I see a lot of meditation being like okay clear your mind Just listen to your breath

[00:25:12] And it's like that doesn't work for me I would get like Kind of like the opposite of meditation you know I would get uh like amped up and anxious and be like Oh I don't want to sit here anymore

[00:25:23] So having that as like just the permission of it's okay to have thoughts and it's totally normal that helped And I think just I mean I've been doing meditation now almost a year I think I started March of last year and I've seen so much change in like how I just handle stuff that would stress me out like that I just can kind of accept it and be like okay that's something that's happening now And I will deal with it

[00:25:48] Um where before I would like have so much anxiety and freak out over stuff that like I couldn't change and I just would have to deal with but I would have so much Um [00:26:00] So much more stressed about it

[00:26:01] So meditation is just I think helped overall calm me so that like you know like this when I really realized it was like last summer I had to have an unexpected root canal And like that was something that I had been yeah I'd had a fear of that for like My whole life cause there's like dental stuff I'm like no not into it at all Like who is but like a root canal just seems like so scary and awful And then like dentist was like okay it looks like you're going to need a root canal and we can't do it Cause it's like uh you know deep tooth and you have like twisted roots You've got to go to a special

[00:26:34] Tori Cox[00:26:34] Oh okay How terrible was it compared to what you had in your head

[00:26:38] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:26:38] It was nothing like it was not a big deal at all And that's like with the meditation that I'm just like Oh we'll just go with it And I feel like that's been like the biggest difference for me It has helped me deal with stuff in my business but also in my life too Just like normal stuff cause I'm naturally kind of an anxious person and I think like a lot of stuff makes me nervous Like even talking about this is so silly like talking to you for this podcast we talk all the time but I had got like nervous for this and I'm just like Oh this is different We're going to record this

[00:27:11] Tori Cox[00:27:11] Yeah where I hit the record button and try to pretend we're not recording it. Like that's my go to strategy. Cause otherwise it's like, Oh wait, no. There are people listening like I am not great about thinking before I speak. And then it's like. Oh, well, but what if I see something stupid and it's like, well, Sarah's heard me say all kinds of stupid stuff and I can edit it out of the podcast, you know?

[00:27:36] But yeah, like I, yeah, I definitely identify with being super anxious, like, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Do you? Okay. Would you call yourself an anxious person though?

[00:27:48]On Anxiety, Overwhelm, and "The Dip" [00:27:48]

[00:27:48] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:27:48] I don't think so now because I feel like I've learned, I've gotten some more tools to help manage it. Cause like I, you know, exercising has helped with that. Just like kind of managing all this extra energy. Meditation has [00:28:00] helped a lot and I've never been like. Well, I guess I wouldn't say never. Like I used to have, like my anxiety would prevent me from doing stuff, but I was, didn't know like that's what it was or that like there was ways to treat it.

[00:28:15] But as I've gotten older and I've gotten more confident and I've learned more ways to kind of handle it, I think it's gotten easier where I might be anxious to do something, but usually I don't not do something I want to do because of my anxiety, if that makes sense.

[00:28:30] Tori Cox[00:28:30] It is a way. It doesn't stop you.

[00:28:34] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:28:34] And I think now the kids like that I see online are like, it's way more open. It's something that they like are all talking about their anxiety and stuff.

[00:28:44] And um. Yeah. Like for those kids or kids that like this generation has, you know, eventually like I think they'll grow up where it's, hopefully it's not, there's not the stigma about mental health cause it's just something that a lot of people deal with. Um, you know, it's not, I think that's the problem is that there is the stigma that.

[00:29:04] Still exist that it's changing, but hopefully it becomes a thing where like it's open to get help. It's like accessible to get help. Like that's the other thing that like I don't like, even now it's like if I needed help, I'm not sure how easy it is to get it because like when I've looked into therapy before.

[00:29:23] It was hard to find a therapist that would

[00:29:25] like accept my insurance and was available and accepting patients And when you're like in that moment when you're like I really need something like uh yeah I don't

[00:29:36] Tori Cox[00:29:36] hard

[00:29:36] it's really hard to find somebody but I think like do with this stigma like I talk about being an anxious person but like I didn't say no Like I have A diagnosis from my therapist

[00:29:50] You know that like literally my business was what caused me anxiety like it's called adjustment disorder And like starting my [00:30:00] business was too much for my brain from a professional like that was their diagnosis You know that like all this other stuff all this other craziness I could deal with but then as soon as it was like this no rules no structure everything comes down to you There's nobody to blame and there's nobody to help kind of like world It was just like Oh I'm crumbling know But when I talk about it with people I call it anxiety you know what I really mean is I was a hot mess like sobbing on the floor that clearly I was a failure And Michael is like why don't you try one of the ideas that you talk to me about And I'm like you don't understand Well you know that Yeah Like I don't talk about that Like I don't tell people that

[00:30:45] like, who wants to tell people that You know But yeah But it'd be like I wish somebody had

[00:30:54] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:30:54] and like that that is like just a normal part for a lot of us Like I know I've been through that where I'm just been like I am failing I am the worst at this and nothing's ever going to happen Like this is and like I usually like breaking down crying like talking to my mom about like my business is failing

[00:31:10] Tori Cox[00:31:10] Yeah When I say like on the floor I mean I literally have this day of I was I think I was doing laundry I don't know But long story short I ended up on the floor in my walking closet a hot mess Like Michael found me just like bawling my eyes out I remember thinking I hope this is rock bottom

[00:31:29] Like I hope it doesn't get worse than this Cause this is so bad And I feel like right like we call it the dip but like nobody says Like the dip is like it's so terrible you know Like how do you I don't I don't have the words to describe how bad it is except for I'm not somebody who cries very often and it brought me to tears all the time All the time

[00:31:54] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:31:54] that was the thing that got me is the sheer amount of overwhelm, especially going from like [00:32:00] someone like we talked about like, where's the syllabus? Like I can follow step by step and then you like start and there is no step-by-step and even like I would buy courses and be like. This is the one, this is the one that's going to tell me exactly what to do, and it'd be like, Nope, this didn't work either or, Nope, there's still too many steps.

[00:32:19] Like I don't know what to do. Like, and I would just get like, I was just doing nothing. And like a lot of the time I would just like sit there like, and break down and cry because I'm just like, I don't know. I can't do anything. Can't. Yeah. Like I said, just feeling like useless. Like there's nothing that can fix this.

[00:32:38] Tori Cox[00:32:38] Yeah, like nothing can fix me because I'm broken. The reason I don't know what to do next is because I'm too stupid to figure it out. Like that's what I always felt like, and I didn't realize that, like nobody really knows what the next step is. They just like do something and see. It's like guess and check. Right?

[00:32:54] Like. Guess and check, like, just get, make your first guess and try it, and if it didn't work, try something else and like, you're not going to get a better system than

[00:33:02] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:33:02] Yeah. And then that like

[00:33:05] and learning too that like it not working is not a reflection of your worth or value. Like cause that was the other thing too for me. If I had like put something out and it didn't do well, I'd be like, Oh my gosh, I'm such a terrible copywriter. Like no one wants to hire me. I should just quit.

[00:33:19] Or you know what I would end up doing most of the times I'd be like, I need another course because I need to be a better copywriter. And I was, that was like how my imposter syndrome was fed. It was this like being a course addict and being like, okay. I need to learn from this person now and I need to learn this person.

[00:33:35] Oh my gosh, they have the system I need. Like, and that was, yeah, what I was doing.

[00:33:39]When we first met, like you had just come off like a really great month and you're like, I watched so much TV. I worked like a normal amount. I watched like all like four seasons of younger and I, you know, had like really.

[00:33:52] Tori Cox[00:33:52] I forgot about that. But you know what's interesting is you say that like I came off of that month and that's when I finally reached out to you and like [00:34:00] three other people, like I had to wait in my own head, like I had to have this like really good month to reach out to other people. And it's like, why.

[00:34:07] Why did I do that? Why did I have this ridiculous, like I've known of you online for years, years? Did I ever talk to you? Did I ever just like, Hey, I think you're cool. Like, no, not until last year. That's ridiculous.

[00:34:21] Like that timing was not a coincidence It was like Oh I finally hit this Okay Like I can I can talk to other business owners and not be like completely embarrassed Like when Also like I had been supporting myself with my own business for years now Like I don't need to be embarrassed Like you know I didn't even need to be embarrassed the first year when I made like nothing and it was like poverty levels because that is part of it Like Oh that's the other thing we want to talk about Like it's part of it not to make a ton of money Nobody really wants to tell you that

[00:34:51] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:34:51] I love that you're doing this podcast and this whole like happier and business movement because it's like how many of us have this kind of Arbitrary goal that we set for ourselves It's like once I clear this bar and then I'm deemed worthy and good enough to be a legit business owner or whatever where it's like you are one no matter where you're at And how much better could it be for all of us if we just drop that and start at like showing up the first we want to be now and not waiting you know for whatever magical number it is or whatever magical revenue you know income what you know whatever

[00:35:28] followers, Instagram or, you know, whatever kind

[00:35:32]Starting a Business: Debt, Help, Side Hustle, or Unicorn [00:35:32]

[00:35:32] Tori Cox[00:35:32] is not a good one If you're going to use a bar don't use that one It has nothing to do with money So um one thing that we put on our list is just like starting like how everybody when they start Either seems to have debt or help right Like one or the other So I'm definitely in the debt camp Like I refused [00:36:00] to take a single dime from anybody in any way uh for help which Was stupid looking back but that is what it is It was very important to me that it was 100% all my thing and nobody would else would be able to claim any part of like helping which is stupid Like nobody would've done that either But you know all the emotional money mindset like baggage that goes along with it Like so yeah

[00:36:26]

[00:36:26] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:36:26] Well and I think like talking with you about this um and you're talking about that there's like either one or the other And I had help from my parents I had a lot of help like getting started And I think that I didn't realize that this was like a thing other people went through and I had so much shame about like taking help and being like okay I'm like relying on my parents for a lot of stuff And like I I it's been a big source of like Oh my gosh I'm not you know, a good enough business owner I'm not doing okay because like I have had to be helped along the way where like having you talk about like we're all doing this It's either one way or the other Like that was like such an eyeopening thing to be like okay like I can like relax about it Like it's like Normal to need some help in some way Either you get you know help from you know taking debt and that's how you do it Or you have someone that helps you out and can support you in that way while you're getting off your feet you know onto your feet and stuff that it's like hadly I know there are probably people that do it on their own that maybe they had like

[00:37:30] Tori Cox[00:37:30] no

[00:37:31] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:37:31] you think that you don't think so If they're like working a job and they're making it really like consciously making that transition

[00:37:37] Tori Cox[00:37:37] okay Maybe if they do it slowly but did you do that I

[00:37:41] jumped in. Yeah, I jumped in, so okay, let's add a third option or you go slow while making money other ways, but there's no like, okay, I quit my job, I'm doing this, and then it just like magically goes super well and there's no debt and no help and no money coming from some other source either.

[00:37:59] Like [00:38:00] that's the reason like isn't that the number one reason that businesses fail is lack of capital? Like that's basically what we're talking about is capital. Like. Your parents help was your capital so that you could spend your money on other

[00:38:11] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:38:11] Yeah. And didn't have to worry about,

[00:38:12] Tori Cox[00:38:12] credit card? Yeah, like it's the same thing.

[00:38:17] Like for me it was like, okay, well there are a couple of people I could ask, but it comes with way too many strings. I'd rather pay the interest that was very conscious. Like I do have an accounting degree. I did do the math. I chose it anyway. You know? I mean, everybody and everybody I know, and like I used to work in business banking like the.

[00:38:36] Professionals who've like started multiple businesses don't usually start without capital.

[00:38:42] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:38:42] They go get a loan.

[00:38:44] Tori Cox[00:38:44] at all. Yeah. Like you get a loan, like if you have no money and you don't have money coming in from other things, then like. It's kind of a recipe for disaster and you can get through it, but it's going to be hard.

[00:38:56] And nobody just said that. Nobody was like, Oh, like you don't have another job. No. Oh, and you don't have help from somebody else? No. Oh, and you're trying to do this without debt? Yeah. Okay. Well, it's not going to happen. You know? Like. And sure. I'm sure they're like, probably if this catches on, I'll get some people who are like, Oh, I did it, and it's like, okay, well maybe you did.

[00:39:15] But for the vast majority of people, that is not how it's going to go. You know, especially like this isn't, the average American has like 20 something thousand dollars in credit card debt.

[00:39:26] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:39:26] Yeah. Something like that. Yeah.

[00:39:32] Tori Cox[00:39:32] Yeah. Like I don't even have that much credit card debt, and I did start a business like, yeah, that, yeah, it's just crazy to me that nobody talks about it when it's like those numbers are out there. Like we can see the statistics, but we don't like put the faces on it, so we just assume it shouldn't be. As you know, there should be some like magical reason that it's not us.

[00:39:52] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:39:52] Well, I think there's also this kind of thought of like, what we're doing is so different that we're not like included in those statistics, but it's like, yeah, you are in [00:40:00] some way, you know, like, and also this kind of work is becoming more and more common, you know, contract and freelancing and you know, becoming more of the norm.

[00:40:09] So it's like, this is more people's story, you know, that this

[00:40:13] Tori Cox[00:40:13] Yeah. More people are doing it, which I think also it's like there's more people who are doing it now too. They also aren't doing it and making so much money that they want to talk about it online. You know? Like, cause I feel like too. The bar that people have to be at to like want to be able to talk about it online is like so much higher than what I would have told somebody was my salary.

[00:40:37] You know what I mean? Like the equivalency, like I would have told them that I was making what I am making now. It's salary-wise and like, not feel bad about it at all, but because my business, it's like, no, no. I just to be, I have to be over-performing that by so much to make all of this worth it. You

[00:40:51] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:40:51] Right. And I think, cause it's like, this is where it gets sort of like this, um, online marketing sort of. Pool that it gets like a cycles through. And I think because so many people are trying to like sell their expert system, like they have to have the numbers to prove they're an expert, whether they're real numbers or not.

[00:41:09] That like to have just like someone that doesn't want to sell you something tell you their numbers. It's like, well that's not that impressive, you know? Cause like this other person here is making so much more. Like the bar just keeps getting raised higher and higher.

[00:41:22] Tori Cox[00:41:22] when your money, yeah. Yeah, like they're just trying to put their hands in your wallet. Whether it's like, I mean, maybe that is what they're, it's not like they're stealing, but like, yeah, they're doing it on purpose. Like that is how they excite you. And get you to want to buy their things.

[00:41:35] Like, you know, that's, I think probably the hardest part about this podcast for me is talking openly about all of this stuff and not have you my own like, new impostor syndrome, and it's like, at this point, that is ridiculous. Like I've been building websites for so long, I literally hundreds, like how many hundreds of websites do you need to build in design before you can call yourself a designer like.

[00:41:57] I don't know because I haven't reached it apparently, [00:42:00] you know. Or like how much money do I need to help people make? Like the other day I was trying to think like, Oh, what can I make like a goal for? I'll help people make this much. And I thought of three clients and very quickly, cause you know, I work with them all the time and like their combined income last year with the systems that I helped them build was over $1 million.

[00:42:19] And yeah, I still have a hard time saying, I'll help you make money.

[00:42:22] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:42:22] Yeah. And that was three clients. Yeah. Out of like the ton that you worked with. Yeah.

[00:42:28] Tori Cox[00:42:28] yeah. Which I mean, obviously those are like big ones who like stuck with it. And there's a, you know, for every one of those, there's people who I've worked with, you said they wanted to start a business and then they didn't And you know, like you can't control for that. But. I think that it's hard even for me to talk about the numbers and not be like, Oh, well then people are going to think, I don't know how to make money online.

[00:42:48] It's like, no, I can definitely help you make money online completely separately. Like if you, you know, listen to this podcast and had been one of my clients, it's not like, Oh, I don't know what I'm doing. I do. I just can't do it for myself. That's different. You know, like the cobbler's children have no shoes.

[00:43:04] Like I do that all the

[00:43:06]Perfectionism. [00:43:06]

[00:43:06] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:43:06] That is like the hardest thing for me. Like actually working on my business and like writing stuff for myself. Like when I was writing my website, I actually got help from another copywriter cause of like, I just can't do it like I need, I did my friend, she did a program about writing your web copy and I was like, please help me cause I know how to write it.

[00:43:25] But when it comes to myself, I just can't do it. Like there's like this block of, I think there's all those insecurities and fears come up, you know? And then just like. Clouds. What I, cause you know, when I can write for a client, I can be like, Oh my gosh, you are so awesome. Like, look at all these things that you are doing.

[00:43:40] And I can like highlight that. And it's so fun and easy. But then when it comes to me, I like see all this stuff that I am not happy with or that I still want to change. And it's just like, you know, all of that comes in and makes it a lot harder to do that.

[00:43:54] Tori Cox[00:43:54] Yeah. So I always tell my clients this too, which I don't take my own advice and I have a hard time designing for myself, but I literally [00:44:00] say when they're like frustrated that they even have to hire me because they don't understand why it was so hard to do in the first place, you know?

[00:44:06] And I'm like, okay, but when I'm designing for you, I'm like, Oh, this matches them as much as their target audience. We'll use this shade of blue. It's perfect. And when we're designing for ourselves, we're like, does that shade of blue, like represent who I am deep down? Like. It doesn't matter like, like the standards that we're using

[00:44:24] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:44:24] especially when when we were all doing personal brands and it like has to represent your business but also who you are as a person That's like what I actually say that like though is that actually how we feel Like is that the right gif to use in this email Like I don't know like and I just like second guess everything

[00:44:41]Sarah's Tips for Service Providers [00:44:41]

[00:44:41] so this is the thing that happens. I think you and I have talked about this before, that like a lot of service provider like have an email list.

[00:44:47] They don't email or they don't build an email list cause they're just like so busy doing one-on-one client work and it's something that has been like so valuable to me to just have an email list that I can like test stuff out with and get feedback from that I feel like every source providers should just start doing that even in a small way.

[00:45:06] Like even if you don't have the time to create like a big lead magnet and a big funnel that you could just start by asking your clients, Hey, do you want to be on my email list? And like emailing your clients like once a month or once a quarter with like some new things that's going on. Or just like keeping in touch with people, um, or having people when they like.

[00:45:25] Contact you through contact form on your websites, asking like, Hey, do you want to be added to my list? And just start building people like that and just like minimum, you know, it can be like once a month. It doesn't have to be like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to start emailing. I'm going to start emailing people every single week, like just to start and try it out.

[00:45:42] So that when you do start to grow your business beyond where you're not wanting to do one on one work as much, or you want to maybe leverage some stuff, like you have an audience that you can. You know, reach out to that has been warmed up and that you are actually emailing them along the way. You're not just [00:46:00] like building the list to do nothing with or building the list and waiting until it gets to some magic number to actually start sending emails.

[00:46:06] Tori Cox[00:46:06] Yeah. Like just do it today. Like no matter how long

[00:46:11] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:46:11] Yeah, and it can be it. You can grow it and get, make it a bigger thing as it grows. You can, you know, create funnels. You can create automations. You can create things like, you know, trip wires and stuff like that. Like that's something that I'm working on now in my business. I'm like, okay, I have an email list.

[00:46:25] I have the opt in. Now I'm working on a trip wire to maybe monetize this in a new way.

[00:46:31] Tori Cox[00:46:31] Yeah. But you didn't have to like do it all the same day

[00:46:33] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:46:33] No. You can just get started in a really small way.

[00:46:37] if you want to catch up with me you find me online at my website, my website is SarahMarieAnderson.com. I'm also over on Instagram. that's been like my favorite social media right now. I'm @SarahMarieglobal on Instagram and I also have a YouTube channel that I'm having a lot of fun with.

[00:46:53] So I make videos about email marketing and you can find me on YouTube. Just search Sarah Marie Anderson and I'll come up.

[00:46:59] Tori Cox[00:46:59] are you currently wearing pants?

[00:47:02] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:47:02] Yes, I am. wearing jeans, I dressed up

[00:47:07] Tori Cox[00:47:07] You are an overachiever,

[00:47:08] Sarah Marie Anderson[00:47:08] These are my get work done pants. I have to wear jeans to like actually focus and get stuff done more than sweat pants or leggings.

[00:47:15] Tori Cox[00:47:15] Yeah. Yeah. I have to put on like fancy leggings instead of sweatpants, leggings, but that's as fancy as I get. Like, I'm impressed.

[00:47:26]And that wraps up another episode of the happier in business podcast where together we are striving for that ultimate goal, figuring out how to kill it in business without killing ourselves. Would you like to subscribe to this podcast, recommends a guest, or become a guest yourself? Please go to happier in business.com I can't wait to hear from you. [00:48:00]

[00:48:02]

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Tori Cox