Episode 3: Kate Scott of katescott.co

Episode 3 Show Notes:

What do you love about working for yourself?

[00:00:00]Tori: [00:00:00] what do you love about working for yourself?

[00:00:03] Kate: [00:00:03] My favorite thing about working for myself is the flexibility and hours and the freedom to kind of work whenever I want. Um, I do not do well with rigid structures that are externally, you know, imposed on me by someone else. Um, so I, I really like that. And also I'm an insomniac, so sometimes I don't sleep at night and.

[00:00:25] You know, I sleep in the next day and I get up late and I work, and then I work. Wait, and you know what? It's fine. Nobody cares because I'm in charge.

[00:00:33] Tori: [00:00:33] Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't matter. I'm the same way. That is definitely my favorite thing. Like every once in a while I'll get like. Down about like, Oh, I wish that, like I had paid vacation days that were just a savings account, but then I'll like see my family, like one of my friends had to work the day after Christmas when she did like never does because she just blown through all of her vacations.

[00:00:55] She couldn't just take it off without pay, and I was like. Well, that's [00:01:00] just like the dumbest thing I've ever  never have to deal with that. Like if I don't want to be paid, I don't have to work.

[00:01:08] Kate: [00:01:08] Put up with a boss who's telling them you know what they can and can't do with their life. I mean, that whole selling your your time to another person who's then really in charge of how you spend that time is just it.

[00:01:22] It gives you this feeling of just being kind of . Chained to a system that you don't really want to be a part of.

[00:01:27] Tori: [00:01:27] Oh yeah. Trapped.

[00:01:28] That's not, nobody likes that.

What do you abhor about working for yourself?

[00:01:30] No. So with that, what do you absolutely abhor about

[00:01:36] Kate: [00:01:36] working for yourself. Oh, gosh. Um, definitely. I think having to do my own marketing, um, social media, I have always said I have three fears, sharks, spiders, and social media.

[00:01:54] I just, I hate, I hate social media. Um, I probably shouldn't say that because now. [00:02:00] And anybody who follows me on social media might hear this and be like, I don't want to follow you anymore if you what I do.

[00:02:04] Tori: [00:02:04] Why wouldn't you? I feel like I w I want to know who else out there is still posting things and still showing up even though they freaking hate it.

[00:02:12] Like, well,

[00:02:14] Kate: [00:02:14] I'm inconsistent with Instagram. Um, and sometimes like it, I do like stories better than regular posts because they're sort of less structured and you can be more yourself. You don't have to, you know, it's that, it's that idea of stories being more from behind the scenes and stuff that I really liked.

[00:02:33] So you're not having to be as polished all the time. Um. So sometimes I can get into stories and be like, Oh, this is okay. Um, it's just scheduling ahead of time that I really have a hard time with.  I am very active on Pinterest, because it brings in so much traffic to my website and yeah. I love Pinterest in and of itself, but I just don't like having to block off that time every week or month or however often I [00:03:00] end up splitting that scheduling time up into, um, I just hate having to sit down and actually do it.

[00:03:07] Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. I think that when I get to the point in my business where I'm ready to outsource more, that will be the very first thing that I outsource.

What do you wish people talked about?

[00:03:14] Tori: [00:03:14] Yeah. Because none of us like it. Okay, so marketing. Okay, so then with that, what do you wish that people talked about.

[00:03:25]Kate: [00:03:25] i, I think that, um, you know, on Pinterest or you know, any of those places, you see a lot of people posting like their,  their income for the month or whatever. And then income breakdown, which I've always found really helpful in a way. But also I feel like people only do that when they get to the point where they're making buckets of money and they can be really proud of what they've done.

[00:03:47] And the truth is that most businesses in this country actually fail, and the rest, most of the rest of what's left of the businesses that succeed, it takes them a long time to get to the place where they're making. You [00:04:00] know, five figures a month, that's, that actually takes time. Not everybody is an overnight success.

[00:04:06] And so, and as much as like the people who are very successful say that nobody really believes it with them because they're only posting now that they've made all this money  so I, I wish that people would talk more about the struggle of just, you know, yeah. This week I didn't have any inquiries or this week, you know.

[00:04:26] I didn't, I didn't actually book any clients this week, and so I'm doing other stuff on my business like it's okay to have failures before you succeed. It's not something that you need to be ashamed of.

[00:04:38] Tori: [00:04:38] I think sometimes too, it's like, have you ever seen where people were doing income reports for awhile and then they stopped and then they started again and it's like.

[00:04:47] That just means you had a bad month that you didn't want to tell people like, I am 100% sure that's all it is. You know, they get nobody. Nobody wants to talk about that. Like nobody, which makes no sense to me. Like I [00:05:00] have had months where I made $10,000 and I've had months where I paid like $1,000 like, you know, it varies.

[00:05:06] So much. And part of it is on purpose because I was really tired after me. 10 grand. So much work. I can't even like sleep. Yeah. Yeah. And nobody, nobody wants to talk about that.

[00:05:18] Kate: [00:05:18] So no. So that's, that's definitely something that, that bothers me a little bit. Um, no, I understand that. Presenting yourself as successful, um, invites more success.

[00:05:30] You know, like clients might be less likely to hire you if you're talking about how you haven't booked very many clients. So from the client side of things, I understand that, but among business owners in Facebook groups, things like that, that's what I have a hard time with is presenting that to other business owners because you know, we're all kind of in the same boat.

[00:05:48] There's one designer I know of who did, actually, she has posted about how in the first year of her business, she only made like. Very little money, and I can't remember,

Um, but I can't remember the proper business for sure. And it was, but I was like, Oh, that's so refreshing.

[00:06:09] Um, you know, and yeah, she's doing better now, but still, it was a struggle to start with, and that's true of most businesses. So,

[00:06:16] Tori: [00:06:16] Oh, definitely. For mine, my first year I made like nothing. I couldn't tell you the exact dollar amount, but I know it was under like. Is maybe close to 20,000 but I don't even know if I made that.

[00:06:27] And I have to pay all my bills, like for myself. And I had to pay for my own health insurance with Obamacare, which was still expensive and I had to pay for doctor's visits. And it was like, I had like no money. Like I'm the queen of budgeting. And that is the only thing that got me through. Like, cause it was very, very tight and stressful.

[00:06:46] And I don't think that, I mean nobody talks about, and I wonder if it's just because it's so frigging hard, like. Yeah. Like back then, like that very first year, I would not take that back. Like I would not go back ever, [00:07:00] ever starting a business again where I don't have money and I also like have to figure out how to manage the money I don't have while trying to make money from other people like that.

[00:07:11] Yeah. It was just horrible.

[00:07:13] Kate: [00:07:13] Being in the first year of my business. I really hear you. So you know, it's like. And that's okay. You know, because this is the time to put everything that you can into it. I mean, obviously you don't want to burn yourself out to the point where you can't work, but, but everything you can into it experiment and see what works and hope for the best, you know?

Women, and how we undercharge ourselves

[00:07:34] Tori: [00:07:34] Yeah. Well, with that too, I think this will be good segue into another topic, because when I think back to like that first year, like the quality of my work, it was so much better than what I was charging. Like so much better. I like, the reason I was broke is because my prices were way too low. Like I was working and I was getting results for people and it was always an easy sell because it was just like a stupid price.

[00:07:57] Like you'd be stupid not to pay me to do this for you at this [00:08:00] price. But it also meant that I was working like crazy. And you know, I did actually like have clients, like I. I've always priced myself so low, like consistently, historically that getting clients was never my problem. It was actually profiting from clients.

[00:08:16] So you know that. Yeah. Which is a totally different problem. Like sometimes you just don't have people, and sometimes it's like, well, yeah, sure. If you tell somebody you're going to build them on set for 500 bucks, you're going to find a lot of takers. You're also not going to sleep now. So. Yeah. Which we talked about this a little bit before we started technically recording.

[00:08:36] Um, but let's talk about just, I guess being female, and I mean entrepreneur, you know, like you're charging ourselves and all of that, like how it goes together.

[00:08:48] Kate: [00:08:48] You know, I think that there is this, I think that women. Probably around the world, but definitely in this country. That's, you know, my, my experience.

[00:08:58] So just speaking from our culture, [00:09:00] um, I think that we have a tendency to undervalue ourselves because the world undervalues us and we internalize that. And I, you know, I've always prided myself on being a very like, um, you know, not aggressive, but very strong person and very strong woman, you know? But I think the hardest part for me was admitting that those things still affect me.

[00:09:23] They affect all of us. It doesn't matter how strong you are, it doesn't matter. You know, how much of a big personality you have. It's still affects all of us. We, and until we wake up to that fact, we can't take positive action to actually change that in our businesses and in our lives. Yeah. So that's, that's a huge issue.

[00:09:42] Um, and, and the second part is that how do we deal with it when other people do undervalue us? Yeah. Because the fact of the matter is that, you know, I mean. Other people have talked about this. You know, if you have a male sounding name or you have a male avatar or whatever, you're more likely to, you [00:10:00] know, get the pricey RAs for succeeding, negotiating and have fewer complaints and revisions, um, with your work.

[00:10:07] And that's very frustrating. . And I think that it's not just men who do that. I think that women do it to other women as well. For

[00:10:15] Tori: [00:10:15] sure. I think that's one of those things where when we talk about this, I think a lot of people think it's like somehow like women against men. And it's totally not like I have a business that is close to like half and half men and women, but I still find that interesting because businesses are not half and half.

[00:10:32] Right? Like that's not representative of the population. Um, but I have a business then, you know, like I work with men and women. Um, and I don't notice a big difference between the genders. I think it's, if I was another gender, my clients may be different kind of things. Instead, it's not like, Oh, well men treat me terribly.

[00:10:50] They don't like to pay me enough. Like that's not my experience at all. I think it's a lot of the time, like. The women around me and my own brain [00:11:00] are not supporting me, if that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:11:03] Kate: [00:11:03] Yeah. I serve primarily women, at least that's, you know, I promote myself as serving women entrepreneurs, and I have clients who are men as well, but for the most part, I serve female entrepreneurs, and I think that I've definitely seen that that mindset is just.

[00:11:20] It's across the board. It doesn't matter if you're, if you're male or female. It's just the thing that it's not men against women. It's patriarchal culture. Yeah. I guess women and women carry that as much as men do.

[00:11:32] Tori: [00:11:32] Yeah. Yeah. So

[00:11:33] Kate: [00:11:33] it's a conscious choice to value other people's work.

[00:11:36] Tori: [00:11:36] I think one thing to you, it's like the weird.

[00:11:40] Like, like it doesn't come from my clients. Like for me, like I started my business, I was finally getting traction, like finally going somewhere, right. And my grandma's talking to her about it so excited cause it was finally fun to talk about my business with my relatives. And she's like, well, don't go and make too much money because Michael, my boyfriend, like, he's not [00:12:00] going to like it if you make more than him.

[00:12:01] And it was like. Yeah. Like the whole point is to make more than him. Like the whole point is eventually to like make more money and maybe he doesn't even have to work. Like that'd be so cool. That is my goal. Like luckily I finally like got up the nerve to like ask him about it cause I was like, I don't think he's going to agree with this, but like.

[00:12:22] I need to know if this is something I need going to have to like fight or like, like in my subconscious. And he was like, why would I want less money? Like how is that good for anyone? And I was like, thank you. But you know, just like hearing that like, Oh, like if you make more money or somehow undervaluing your partner.

[00:12:44] Self sabotage.

[00:12:47] Kate: [00:12:47] That attitude though, shows how little we valued women who have traditionally earned less than men. Right. Because we view that as bad. Yeah. So now that women are the ones who are, then it's like, you know, we're [00:13:00] putting men in sort of the traditionally feminine role and we view that feminine role, or it's not really feminine, but you know what I mean?

[00:13:07] That role of not being the primary breadwinner, we view that as a less. Even though people who aren't primary breadwinners are usually the ones raising the kids, doing all the housework, that's just unpaid labor. That is extremely

[00:13:21] Tori: [00:13:21] valuabe

Chronic Illness, and how it affects your business

[00:13:22] okay, so you, I started a business and you also have a chronic illness. Tell me about how much fun that must be.

[00:13:31] Kate: [00:13:31] Oh, it's so much fun. I just, yeah, no, it, it's a challenge. It's a huge challenge. And just, you know, there's a whole spectrum of what chronic illness means to people ranging from something that is mildly annoying to something that is life altering in every way.

[00:13:48] And I'm on that. Side of the spectrum. It's so life altering illness. Um, you know, and so dealing with that, particularly the, the two big symptoms that I, that I deal with on a regular basis, which are [00:14:00] pain and fatigue, um, it's very difficult. Um, and you have to kind of structure your entire business. In a way that makes it so that you can not only manage it, but you know, not get to that point where you're burned out.

[00:14:15] And when you have an illness that is a much lower, it's, you know, there's a, it's a much lower threshold, so you have to really manage your energy reserves

[00:14:25] Tori: [00:14:25] a lot.

[00:14:26] A lot. So what does that, okay, so does that actually look like, like what do you have to change or what do you have to do differently? The other people get to like take for granted.

[00:14:35] Kate: [00:14:35] Well, the first thing is, um, flexibility. I have to be a lot more flexible in terms of, um, you know, I have sort of a list of things that are my goal to get done for a day, but I have to realize that if I hit, you know, a pain crisis or if I'm just more exhausted than usual, I can't just push through that all the time.

[00:14:54] There are times in the beginning of my business when I, when I would work like through migraines and stuff, [00:15:00] um, and I, I just have to like say no to that a lot because. If you come out on the other side of that, it's going to be worse. You're gonna be dealing with more symptoms if you keep trying to just push your body beyond what it can do.

[00:15:14] Um, so flexibility is a huge thing. And like I mentioned in the beginning, I have insomnia too. So flexibility in terms of hours is really important for me. Um, basically it's a mentality of get what you can get done when you can get it done. And beyond that, you can't really do too much scheduling of your life.

[00:15:34] Um, so that whole time blocking thing that people talk about as a productivity tool, that just doesn't work for me. And you know, it doesn't probably work for a lot of people with chronic illnesses because you can't predict how you're going to be feeling at any given time. Symptoms change, they alter, they fluctuate throughout the day, throughout the week.

[00:15:53] So that's a big thing. Um. The flexibility. Obviously [00:16:00] there's the issue of making appointments with clients. Um, and with that, it's sort of like you do the best you can with predicting how you're going to feel based on how you currently feel based on patterns that you've observed. Um, and then you just hope for the best.

[00:16:16] And if you have to do a meeting when you're feeling rotten. Then you have to do a meeting. When you're feeling rotten, that's when you reach the point where it's like, okay, this is what I have to push through. When it, when it's, when it's other people that are involved.

[00:16:32] Tori: [00:16:32] So do you schedule, like do you set up projects with clients.

[00:16:37] To account for any kind of like flexibility, like is there anything,

[00:16:42] Kate: [00:16:42] yeah, absolutely. So my full web design package takes about five weeks, and I set that up specifically to account for the fact that I will have to take more sick days than a normal person. Um, so normally I could get that work done in.

[00:16:58] Maybe three and a half to four [00:17:00] weeks, but I leave an extra week of buffer time. Um, just in case, because you know what? Almost always I do have to take those sick days and that's okay. But I set expectations so that I'm not constantly having to make excuses. Um, and they're not excuses. I mean, they're widgets and reasons why I can't get things done as quickly.

[00:17:18] But when you tell a client you're going to get something done at a certain time, it's going to sound like an excuse to them. They're not going to buy the whole, you know, because most people don't fully understand what it means to live with a serious chronic illness. So setting reasonable expectations in advance of both yourself and for the

[00:17:36] Sick of the client really goes a long way towards making sure that you have a good relationship with your client.

[00:17:42] Tori: [00:17:42] Do you tell them that you have a chronic illness or do you just like set the deadlines with enough flexibility that you don't have to talk to them about it?

[00:17:49] Kate: [00:17:49] I've always been extremely private about my illness.

[00:17:52] Um, so I don't like to talk about it unless it's something that really comes up. I've told one client about my illness. [00:18:00] Um, but other than that, I feel like. Unfortunately, chronic illness is very misunderstood in this country, particularly the sort of, you know, the chronic pain, chronic fatigue to complex type type illnesses.

[00:18:12] Um, so I don't really like getting into that because most people don't understand it and they don't want to know and they don't need to know. So, yeah. You know, I'm a big believer in separating personal from business, even though you can't separate chronic illness from any part of your life. Just from the client standpoint, not going into details is better

[00:18:35]Tori: [00:18:35] but I agree. Like I don't, yeah, I try not to tell people things. Like even when my mom was in the hospital, it was like, like do I just tell them like, Hey my mom's in the hospital or do I just like not mentioning it? Cause there's a lot of it where it was like. Um, luckily for me when all of that happened, like I had two clients that were like, Hey, I need to move our meeting and I have the flu.

[00:18:58] And I was like, cool, I'm just not going to [00:19:00] talk to you about it. And then that worked out really well for me. So

[00:19:04] Kate: [00:19:04] yeah, I think I did tell one person who wasn't a client, but was sort of a representative of a company that I might do some contractor work for. When my grandfather died, I was like, cause I talked to her the day after it happened.

[00:19:17] That was my like sort of interview with her and, and I was just like, look, I'm not, I'm not taking any work, this one, any new work, like big stuff because I just need time to process it. And for something that's really, um, temporary, like mourning the death of a loved one or a temporary illness, like maybe if you have mono or something like that, I think it's totally fine to say that.

[00:19:38] Um, I did tell a client once when I ended up in the ER and I was like, I can't. I can't make my appointment. I was just in the year or last week. Um, and that's fine, but going into something that's going to be affecting you every single day,

[00:19:54] Tori: [00:19:54] definitely

[00:19:55] Kate: [00:19:55] pull some understanding.

[00:19:56] Tori: [00:19:56] Yeah. When it has the stigma too, like people

[00:19:58] Kate: [00:19:58] has this stigma.

[00:20:00] [00:20:00] Yeah. It's too bad. I think that I would like to get to the point in my business where. I am so successful and so confident in my ability to bring in just like buckets of clients and to have a wait list and all of that. I can talk about it openly and be totally honest, because I do think. That it's very encouraging for other entrepreneurs with chronic illnesses to hear that, that it's possible to succeed in spite of it.

[00:20:25] That it's, you know, to have advice that's really specific to that situation because you know, when you have an illness that affects your whole life, every piece of business advice that you get, you have to filter through. Ken, my body handle this.

[00:20:42] Tori: [00:20:42] Mmm.

[00:20:43] Kate: [00:20:43] And that is really, it's, it's difficult. It's like you have this, this thing inside of you that's stopping you from doing what you really want to do.

[00:20:51] And so to have advice that's specific to people with chronic illness, I think would be a wonderful thing.

Bad advice

[00:20:56]Tori: [00:20:56] what advice have you heard for small business owners [00:21:00] and entrepreneurs?

[00:21:00] I can't pick a term, um, that you think is bad. Like, what advice have you heard that you just honestly think is bad advice.

[00:21:10] Or maybe not as one size fits all as it sounds

[00:21:14]Kate: [00:21:14] for someone who has a limited amount of energy to work with, um, I think that the idea of doing free work to start out with. Like as a way to build your portfolio is not great.

[00:21:25] Um, I chose not to do that. Has it been difficult to get, you know, get the ball rolling, so to speak because of that? Yes, but the fact is, it's so draining. Um, to do client work, and that's fine if you're getting compensated fairly, but if you're not, it can be just, it's too much sometimes. So I don't think that you have to follow that advice.

[00:21:48] I don't think it's necessarily bad advice. Like if I were 100% healthy, you know, 27 year old. Was on my totally on my game in terms of like being able to just do anything I wanted to do, I'd probably go that [00:22:00] route. But if you're not in that position, if you have a limited amount of time or a limited amount of energy, don't feel like you have to do things for free just to succeed.

[00:22:08] Tori: [00:22:08] You know? Honestly, I've always thought that that was bad advice because I feel like. Usually you want that, those first like projects to show what you're capable of. And then when you add in the variable of a client, especially somebody who can't pay, a lot of the time, you end up with a project where they just kind of ruin it to say it like they sabotage their own stuff.

[00:22:31] Like it's not going to always end up being a portfolio piece. Like

[00:22:35] Kate: [00:22:35] it's true. Well, this is a good example. Recently I launched a service doing one hour strategy sessions, and before I launched, I thought, because this is such a, an like a short term service, it's just one hour with a client. I'm going to give away a few for free to try and get testimonials.

[00:22:56] I had such a hard time finding people. I posted [00:23:00] in Facebook groups who wanted to do it, and then from that list, people who I actually wanted to work with, it was very difficult. I ended up only doing two free sessions when I launched that at full price as a paid service. I was more successful in getting people to sign up than I was when it was free.

[00:23:19] I liked working with those people more so I just think. Yeah. You don't have to do three words. Don't feel like you have to undervalue yourself in the beginning just because you're new.

[00:23:31] Tori: [00:23:31] Yeah. Flash sales are where it's at, man. That I believe in, like I'm going to do this for $500 but if you sign up in the next like week or whatever, I mean probably not a gift.

[00:23:41] Don't give them a week. That's bad advice. But if you do it in the next day, like you can do it for two 50 you know, like something where it's just like you were owning the reason to why it's cheaper, but it's still not free. Cause I feel like that's what everybody has is like, Oh well if it's free. Then how good it is, right?

[00:23:57] Because there is value in that whole, [00:24:00] like when you make people pay for it, then they just value what you're saying more. It's not just some person who you know that they just met and absolutely like take it more seriously.

[00:24:11] Kate: [00:24:11] So it's true. I mean, I think of the courses that I've taken, I've taken, you know, a few different free courses, but all of the courses that I paid less than a hundred dollars for.

[00:24:20] I never finished, but the course that I paid like $750 for, I was on that, like I was invested and you know what? It helped me grow it. You know? It helped me build my business. Absolutely. When you price based on your value. Um, you will get better results, but you will also help other people get better results.

[00:24:43] Tori: [00:24:43] Yes. Like they will listen more. I did not believe that until when I first started years and years ago, I was on Upwork, right? So that's like a job board. And I started with a very low rate and my, like the first sentence of my portfolio was literally, or my like profile was literally like. [00:25:00] This is, my rates are like a one time deal.

[00:25:02] They're going up like based on clients, like I'd get a client, my rate would go up, I get a client, I have my rate would go up again. Um, but just like the quality of the clients that I was getting when I was cheaper was so different. You know, every like $5 to $10 increments. They just kept getting better and better and better.

[00:25:20] And. It was the same work, like a lot of the time it was the exact same thing, like I was getting more experience, but a lot of it was like when I tell somebody like, Hey, you need an email list. Like they don't go, Oh, you're just saying that. They're like, Oh, she said it was really important. Like. Yeah. Cause I've seen how much money you can make from them.

[00:25:40] Like, I'm not lying. Email lists are important, that kind of thing. There's not as much pushback. Like you're paying somebody $15 an hour, like you're not paying them for expertise in marketing. Like, you know,

[00:25:53] Kate: [00:25:53] if you want people to take you seriously, you have to charge an amount that makes people take you seriously.

[00:25:59] Yeah. [00:26:00] You know, they're going to listen to you more and they're going to get better results and they're going to give you better testimonials as a result. Yeah. Which means you're going to get more clients. It's just, yes, it's an upward cycle.

[00:26:10] Tori: [00:26:10] Yeah. You know, now that you say that too, like they get better results, but I think that like literally charging more makes them put more into it  which gets them better results too.

[00:26:19] Like it's a whole other like variable that just like adds into it that a lot of the time.

[00:26:26] Kate: [00:26:26] Yeah.

[00:26:27] Tori: [00:26:27] Yeah. And yet we still like, you know, are so. Like undervalued. I know, right? It's so easy to do. Like it's a, it's like this. Some days I'm like, Oh, I should be making like, like six figures easy. And some days I'm like, how do I even support myself this way?

[00:26:51] This is crazy. You know that? Yeah. Like I, yeah. It's just, it's so. Like I was just . [00:27:00] I dunno. I was like 25 and had a computer and I was living in Ohio and didn't want to anymore. And like, all right, we're just going to make this work. Like, you know, like that's insane that it moved into something where I could support myself.

[00:27:13] And then also I like. You know where you just like oscillate between like shame and gratefulness. I'm so grateful I could support myself. Also. I'm so ashamed that I am not making six figures. Yeah. Like,

[00:27:29] Kate: [00:27:29] yeah. It's the whole psychology of it can be, can be very exhausting.

[00:27:34] Tori: [00:27:34] Yes. The entrepreneurial roller coaster. No, it's horrible. Yeah. That's the other thing nobody talks about is the dip. There's always a dip. It always sucks. At some point it will suck.

[00:27:48] Kate: [00:27:48] Yeah. And that's true at any point in your business, even if you want me six or seven figures, when you have that dip, you're still gonna go through that emotional, um, that, that feeling of [00:28:00] what if this is what, if this is the end and I can't do it anymore?

[00:28:04] Yeah, that's never going to stop. So you have to learn how to ride those, those waves without every time, you know?

[00:28:10] Tori: [00:28:10] Oh yeah. I think that was probably the most useful skill that I finally learned was like, it doesn't matter if I don't know exactly where my money will come from in six months from now, it will come like I don't need the client list literally written down where the prices next to it.

[00:28:26] Like. But it'll still happen, you know? And like trusting in that process and trusting in the marketing that I did have together and the processes I did have like together with so hard, it's so hard to just go like, okay, well I'm just going to trust this is going to work

[00:28:42] Kate: [00:28:42] well and separating yourself from the results because yeah.

On Woo

[00:28:47] Just the, I think it's very easy for us to say that because, you know, this particular marketing tactic that I implemented failed. I'm a failure. And that's not true, but it's, I mean, that negative [00:29:00] self talk, I mean, I know that very woo, but it's true. We do have an internal critic that just eats at us if we let,

[00:29:06] Tori: [00:29:06] yeah.

[00:29:07] I think that's like negative self talk to me does not count as woo. Like, yeah, I mean there's definitely like woo people out there who are trying to sell you all kinds of weird stuff based on like, Oh, just think about it hard enough. But like you'll get it. Like, no, that's not true. But like, yeah, you kind of have to like work

[00:29:23] Silence that part of your brain that's like, this isn't going to work. This isn't gonna work. You saw, and most people have that. Maybe it's like just an Enneagram thing, like I'm a type one. I definitely have that, like,

[00:29:39] Kate: [00:29:39] yeah, how's that? Okay.

[00:29:41] Tori: [00:29:41] They have their own version. Maybe

[00:29:43] Kate: [00:29:43] they just think it's everybody else.

[00:29:46] Tori: [00:29:46] Right? It's everyone else's. I don't like. That's actually like, did you know that it taking an unreasonable amount of responsibility for things is like an entrepreneurial [00:30:00] trait? Like. I just think that we all have in common, yeah.

[00:30:03] That we like

[00:30:05] Kate: [00:30:05] tend to

[00:30:06] Tori: [00:30:06] take responsibility for things that other people would be like. This is clearly outside your power. And we're just like, obviously I should have had a completely different strategy. Like, Hey, they, yeah. And

[00:30:17] Kate: [00:30:17] I will return to the, um, the argument that I think is also very much a female thing because we've been trained to take responsibility for how other people feel or how, you know, how things happen.

[00:30:28] Like, you know. Mothers who, you know, they take responsibility for everything that goes on with their kids, even though they're not, you know, they, they feel like they're in charge of their kids, but nobody's really in charge of their kids, you know? Yeah. You can't control everything and you're not a bad person or a bad business owner if you can't.

[00:30:46] It's okay. Yeah.

The Grilled Cheese- and a reminder not to be a jerk to your loved ones

[00:30:48] Tori: [00:30:48] Yeah. It's interesting that you say that too, cause I was definitely like the oldest of a lot of kids and. I was used to being like the leader and the one who had to like do stuff. Like, you know, I spent my summers babysitting. [00:31:00] Like, you know, like if we were going to eat, there was going to be me making it.

[00:31:03] And just like how much of that you take later, you know that now we just have like family get togethers and I still do that. Well, you know, when there's no point, like they're all adults, we can all face are ourselves. Like it's not a big deal. So yeah. Yeah. But you just, yeah, I was actually sick this weekend.

[00:31:22] Michael's family was visiting and I was just like, dude, you guys are going to have to figure out dinner. I can't handle this. Even though usually I cook because I love cooking. Right. And then I like went into the kitchen and they made grilled cheese sandwiches and they put the like, they buttered both sides, like the bread, but then they put the butter on the inside and left the outsides with nothing.

[00:31:39] And I was like. How do none of you know how to make a grilled cheese sandwich? I do not understand like what is even happening right now? Like you could have YouTube did it. I don't get it. I was so unreasonably like annoyed that I was like, okay, I'm going to like back out and like not [00:32:00] be like too concerned about it.

[00:32:01] Then I was like, you could don't even know how to make a grilled cheese. Yeah, yeah. And then, yeah, I literally had to like leave the room and Michael's like, you're being very rude right now. Well, you guys are being stupid, by the way.

[00:32:20] I mean, I might put that part, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, listen, I just won't tell him that I have a podcast. Like I'm just not going to tell anybody I, okay, here's something that I put in, I legitimately considered this year. Telling people that I had a day job so that they would leave me alone during working hours.

[00:32:40] Like I'm not even lying like that. Yeah. Like people call me and want to chat at like 2:00 PM and I'm like, no. Yeah. Like, what's up? And I'm one of those people, like, I don't put, I have my phone for like important people where it rings no matter what. And it's like, [00:33:00] why? Why really? This is like, yes. What? Why don't you just call me after normal work day?

[00:33:08] But then, I mean, also feed into it because I'm a workaholic and I work all the time. So like how would they know what work hours are?

[00:33:14] Kate: [00:33:14] So just like

[00:33:16] Tori: [00:33:16] myself.

[00:33:17] Kate: [00:33:17] That's true. Yeah. No, I deal with that too. Definitely.

[00:33:20] Tori: [00:33:20] Like, well, it's 7:00 PM and you're still working also your Ricky and yesterday at 11 so how am I supposed to know what you're doing?

[00:33:27] Yeah,

[00:33:29] Kate: [00:33:29] well, and when I can't sleep sometimes, like if I'm up at three I'm like. Sometimes like I really struggle with the temptation to start working on because I want like, I like my job and I want to, but then I'm like, no, just watch Netflix.

[00:33:44] Tori: [00:33:44] I'm not gonna lie. I have a rule of if I start to dream in the

[00:33:49] Kate: [00:33:49] Squarespace

[00:33:50] Tori: [00:33:50] or any related tool, then.

[00:33:53] Working at night is out of the question like, Oh, that has 100% happened [00:34:00] to me many times. Like you pull a couple of late nights on specific things like, no, it's like, you know, there'll be weeks where I lost three websites this entire week and I just sat there and Squarespace for hours and I was doing it, you know, 10 minutes before my head hits the pillow and.

[00:34:16] Oh, literally dream about

[00:34:18] Kate: [00:34:18] Squarespace, 

Isolation

[00:34:19] Tori: [00:34:19] so, okay. Let's talk about isolation. Yeah. Which we have discussed in the past, and I wanted to talk to you about, because I know that you, the book reader, I read lots of different things about it, so why don't you tell us your

[00:34:37] Kate: [00:34:37] thoughts.

[00:34:39] I mean, I think that in general, our society is becoming more and more isolated in that, um, you know, we have fewer friends. We talk to them in person. We hang out with them in person a lot less frequently. You know, we're dealing with this sort of the breaking down of social bonds in our society. And I know that sounds almost like [00:35:00] traditional and conservative in a sense, but the truth is that we need other people.

[00:35:04] We are fundamentally social creatures, and if we don't have strong communities and strong social bonds and strong social safety nets that are outside of just the government taking care of us, if we don't have. Family and friends who are there for us. That's a very scary position to be in and it creates a lot of stress.

[00:35:24] And, um, I think it leads to a lot of depression and anxiety even. Um, for sure. So, and you know, if you look back, and this is where I'm going to get a little bit sciency, if you look back at traditional Hunter gatherer societies, which is basically what we evolved to be, you know, we, we didn't evolve to live in this.

[00:35:42] You know, zoo that we've created for ourselves called civilization. But if you look back at that, you know, um, I was recently reading a fantastic book by Christopher Ryan called civilized to death. And he was talking about how in traditional Hunter gatherer societies, um, children, [00:36:00] infants from the day they're born are pretty much constantly held by an adult in the community.

[00:36:05] Um, childcare responsibilities are shared. Um, children are free to move. Throughout the community and, and to, not necessarily always be with their parents, but to always be with someone. Um, I've seen documentaries of certain Hunter gatherer societies where, you know, they kind of all sleep together in like these little cuddle packs and you know, that kind of physical and emotional and social contact with other humans on a regular basis is important to our.

[00:36:36] Psychological and physical health and development. And it's very easy to lose that in today's society. Um, I, I recently saw an ad on Instagram for an app that reminds you to get in touch with your friends because we've gotten to the point where we actually need that. Like we can get to reach out to other people.

[00:36:56] And I say this without any judgment toward other [00:37:00] people because I am literally the worst when it comes to. You know, getting myself out of that isolation mindset. I'm deeply introverted and I have a really hard time with that. Um, but it's something that we have to kind of challenge ourselves to do a little bit.

[00:37:16] Otherwise. We will end up in a pit of despair along with everybody else. I mean, this is part of the reason why it's not the whole reason, but it's part of the reason I think why we have such a problem with, um, diseases of despair. Mmm. In this country. You know, drug use, alcohol use, suicide, all that stuff.

[00:37:35]yes, there's a lot of existential crises going on and that are contributing to that as well. But how are we supposed to deal with those. Existential issues like climate change, you know, if we don't have that immediate grounding of another human being to lean on . So that's something that I, I'm really passionate about.

[00:37:57] Mmm. And I'm not sure that I have any [00:38:00] answers or solutions for how to do that, except that we just need to, yeah. Be there for each other and to reach out when we need help because otherwise we're not gonna be able to do it. And especially as entrepreneurs because we don't have an office environment. So lean on other people when it comes to like difficulties at work or professional issues.

[00:38:17] so building networks of people will like you. What you and I do is we talk, you know, once a month, just having that sort of support system is really important.

[00:38:27] Tori: [00:38:27] Yeah, yeah. Wait, should, for me, I mean, that took me years. Like I randomly. Just to ask you if you wanted to meet, and it took me like four years before I was just like, Hey, I'm just going to talk to somebody.

[00:38:39] You know, like she seems interesting. I think it was, what was it like? I think you commented in a Facebook group and it was like. Basically somebody was being dumb, but you like nicely told them that they needed to do something differently. And I was like, that is really good advice. And also she said it very well.

[00:38:55] I want to be your friend. You know, I, he was scary. [00:39:00] Like

[00:39:01] Kate: [00:39:01] I was so glad that you. Reached out because I was not yet at the point where I was ready to reach out professionally to other people and I didn't realize how much I needed that until you did so

Combating Isolation

[00:39:13]Tori: [00:39:13] like actually that takes me to another question then about isolation. Like do you do anything in your business to try to like combat it or let it at least not make it worse.

[00:39:23] Kate: [00:39:23] I mean, I think the biggest thing that I do is, is kind of our monthly talks is, is really helpful just in terms of like, being able to unload some of that business anxiety and, and, you know,  and we go beyond that, but, you know,

[00:39:37] that's just really helpful. I don't think that Facebook groups are always the best place to do that, but there are some groups, like smaller groups, like, um, I belong to a group specifically for web designers.  and that actually, like, if you have a question that's. Or you have, you know, something happened that you want to share that's a little bit more deep when it comes to dealing with client issues and stuff.

[00:40:00] [00:39:59] That can be a good place to go.  I wouldn't join the big Facebook groups and post there about that stuff, but if it's a small private group, that can be really helpful. , I think the, for some people, this isn't something that personally I pursued, but mastermind groups of like three or three to five women or three to five business owners who get together and talk about issues and hold each other accountable, that can be really helpful.

[00:40:19] So it's just about finding. The thing that works best for you and what you're comfortable with. , well, I should say what you're comfortable with, but go outside your comfort zone a little bit.

[00:40:28] Tori: [00:40:28] Yeah. Yeah. Something that fits you, but yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I never, like, masterminds never really appealed to me.

[00:40:36] I feel like it's too much about my business. Like my problem is that my life is already so much from my business. I just want people to understand that, you know, like, I don't want it to be like, we don't get together and be like, Hey, like, let's update each other on our progress in our businesses. Like, you know, like it's not an accountability check-in, but like kind of like, you knew I was watching a podcast and like I told you like, Hey, you should ask me about that.

[00:40:59] Just like I would with a [00:41:00] friend where it's like, Oh, like if you see me eating donuts. You should remind me. I said I was going to die. You know, like, yeah.

[00:41:07] Kate: [00:41:07] It's just like ship. And then, yeah. And, and I think that that model of just connecting with people one on one is, is almost better because like, I probably would not be comfortable talking about the specific struggles that I deal with, with my illness in relation to my business in a group setting.

[00:41:23] That's just not, you know, I'm more private than that. But, you know, with one person, it's like, sure, you can, you know, build up that trust and share a little bit more about that. And I think that's going to be helpful. And that's what. You know, undoing that isolation mindset is about, it's about opening up to the point where you're not having to just sort of hold things in that don't feel acceptable to you or to other people.

[00:41:49] It's just like really being yourself and being honest about your struggles. Because if you can't do that, then you're, you're gonna so pop that, that almost, it's almost a [00:42:00] physical tension. Like you're holding it in, you know what I mean?

[00:42:02] Tori: [00:42:02] Yeah. Like how are you Spanx?

[00:42:07] Spanx. Yeah. I feel like that is like, it really is. It's like, like getting on and talking. I have the two of you, but I have made friends with, one of them will be another podcast or this you'd like last year and. Like after the conversations, I'm like literally so excited to dive back into my work because like I do love it.

[00:42:28] I love it. And every once in a while it's just like, Oh my gosh, these things are just piling up and I'm forgetting how much I love it. You know? I feel like that must be how people feel about their kids. Like when you just have those days that they're just being a terror, like you still love them. But they're awful. And I feel like it's the same way. It's easy to forget when you don't have somebody.

[00:42:46] Do you like healthily talk about the crap side. It's harder to remember all of the good too, cause

[00:42:53] Kate: [00:42:53] you

[00:42:53] Tori: [00:42:53] just keep getting tighter.

[00:42:57] Kate: [00:42:57] Yeah, absolutely. No, it's true. And [00:43:00] it really, I think, um, you know, whether it's in your personal life or your business life, just holding all of that in, it doesn't mean you need to share it with everyone.

[00:43:08] It doesn't mean that, you know, if it feels wrong with a certain person to share it, then don't. But you know. Hopefully you can find someone who it feels right to share it with and that you know it's okay and it's safe, and you're not going to be judged for it and be that space for other people because when you are that space that nonjudgmental.

[00:43:27] Space for other people, they are more likely to be that space for you too. So

[00:43:31] Tori: [00:43:31] yeah, that actually I think is one of the like better pieces of advice I've run into is like when it comes to paying contractors, when it comes to like dealing with other people in general, in business, like the space that you give others is this.

[00:43:43] Say it makes it easier for you to give yourself permission to do that too. Like, you know what I mean? Like. Yeah, the, if I like, ideal is have contractors and I try to like purposely space things out enough that it's not like, Hey, I have this and I need it [00:44:00] today. Like I don't do that because that's not a great way to work.

[00:44:03] I know what it's like to be on the other end of that. I don't want to perpetuate that. And as soon as I was hiring people and setting those standards, it was a lot easier. Just set them for myself. No, I'm not on call for 25 people every day. It doesn't work that way. It's an unreasonable standard.

[00:44:20] Kate: [00:44:20] Exactly.

[00:44:20] And to receive validation from others that your boundaries are not unreasonable. It was really helpful in overcoming that. That feeling of needing to be available 24, seven, because I think that we all deal with that a little bit.

Procrastination

[00:44:33] Tori: [00:44:33] yeah. Okay. So let's talk about procrastination, especially with our businesses.

[00:44:42] Kate: [00:44:42] Yeah. So I have a little story about this. Um, I have come a long way when it comes to my tendency to procrastinate, but when I was a kid, like nine or 10 years old in the fourth grade.

[00:44:56] We, um, we're working on this year long project where [00:45:00] we wrote up biography. We were paired off into teams and we wrote a biography of an elderly person at the local nursing home. So my writing partner, and I. We're very much at odds about how to approach this, because I would spend the entire hour that we were given each day to work on this project, preparing to do the work, like organizing things, organizing notes, organizing this, organizing that, and never actually doing the work.

[00:45:29] Um, which annoyed her and everybody around me, um, because I never got done. Now the project did eventually get done, but that's okay. Really, it wasn't down to me. It was. It was in spite of me. Right. Yeah. So, you know, from that point in my life, I've, I've definitely made a lot of progress in terms of handling that tendency to procrastinate.

[00:45:52] but it was a long journey. You know, it's, it's, it's definitely, I think, a very deep seated thing that a lot of people deal with. [00:46:00] beyond just the, I don't want to do this right now. I'm not going to,  you know, there's a difference between that. Doing that occasionally and having this like tendency to just constantly procrastinate and never do anything.

[00:46:12] And I think at the root of that is kind of a fear of failure, right? Because if you never start, you can't get it wrong. and also a misunderstanding of what failure really is. Because failure isn't about, I'm doing it wrong. It's about not doing it at all. Right. You can't fail if you try, if you really put effort into it.

[00:46:33] And so it's definitely, I think procrastination is a sort of self protective measure.  that really ends up. Causing us to self sabotage instead of, you know, actually succeed in life. So that's sort of my, my view on procrastination.  but in terms of how I ended up dealing with that, um, I'm no less afraid of failure now than I was when I was 10 years old.

[00:46:58] But I realized [00:47:00] that if you're going to get anywhere in life, you have to face down that fear because otherwise you will literally just procrastinate. I mean procrastinate until the day you die and you'll never get where you want to be. So

Self Sabotage

[00:47:13] Tori: [00:47:13] yeah. Yeah. So do you think there's any other ways that you self-sabotage?

[00:47:21] Does it show any other way?

[00:47:28] Kate: [00:47:28] yeah, totally. I think that I've, I've actually turned down work because I was afraid that I couldn't do it, which. Kind of goes in with the procrastination thing, a little bit of being afraid to start. but it's a little bit different. I mean, like I've actually turned down cold, hard cash just because I'm like, I don't know that I can do this.

[00:47:47] And. What if I can't, that person's going to hold me accountable. And that fear of being held accountable, and that fear that I don't really have what it takes, the skill that it takes, that I don't have the ability to [00:48:00] adapt and learn quickly despite all of the evidence to the contrary. Right?

[00:48:04] Tori: [00:48:04] It's just the game.

[00:48:05] Like you seem like somebody who's very much into learning,

[00:48:11] Kate: [00:48:11] learning, and you know, I think. You know, I don't know how much your listeners might know about the Enneagram, but, and I tell you five and that, um, that need to be hyper prepared because we feel unable to deal with the reality of the world unless we know everything we need to know going in is very much at the core of the type.

[00:48:33] Five,  that fear of being incompetent. Yeah. And so if I'm not 100% sure that I can be 100% competent, it's really terrifying to start something.

Enneagram Personalities

[00:48:43] Tori: [00:48:43] Yeah. So I think we should put a link to your blog post about the Enneagram cause I think. It's like goes back to that like too, woo woo or not for me, like I'm not into like woo woo, right?

[00:48:57] Like I don't want to like just basically sit [00:49:00] there and try to think about things and just gradually make them happen. Like, I don't think the world works like that. Like, I mean, there's something to be said for mindset, but like. The world that goes on action as well. However, I thought that Enneagram was so much more useful than Myers-Briggs, which like everyone uses, and for me, like reading your thing and then getting mine like.

[00:49:21] Uh, you know, where I took the test and it told me as a type one, and I was going to message you and say, Hey, I'm a type one before I like read, what a type one was. And my first thought was like, Oh, it could be a bad thing. I'm not going to tell her. And then I read the thing, I like wait and click to it. And it was like biggest fear being bad.

[00:49:39] And I was like. Well, they got that one spot. I don't know what to tell you. Like, you know, it's just like perfectionist do gooder is, I didn't realize how hard. I would identify with that. Yeah.

[00:49:55] Kate: [00:49:55] Well, and you know, that's kind of what I love about the Enneagram is that I hate it so much [00:50:00] because it's not the kind of PR like Myers Briggs tells you basically how your brain works and what your strengths are, which is helpful.

[00:50:07] Um, but The Enneagram tells you what's wrong

[00:50:09] Tori: [00:50:09] with you. Yeah.

[00:50:10] Kate: [00:50:10] Yeah. More helpful because if you can't work with that, if you can't figure out how to overcome that, you're not going to get anywhere.

[00:50:20]Tori: [00:50:20] you know that, yeah. It helps with that. Well, it also tells me that like when I'm stressed, I'm super critical, like to myself and others, like going back to like being sick this weekend and stressed out and like yelling at people cause they don't know how to make a grilled cheese.

[00:50:34] Like who the hell cares? You know? But in that moment, I was. So annoyed by it that I was super critical. Like I couldn't just keep my mouth shut. I had to be like, why do you not know how to make a grilled cheese? Like, I mean, the Enneagram has it, like right there, like this is the kind of stuff you'll do. And it's like, Oh yeah.

[00:50:54] And I feel like it's a lot easier to just like change behavior. Like try to catch it and [00:51:00] change when it's like in black and white on a piece of paper. Like, Hey, you're this type of person.

[00:51:04] Kate: [00:51:04] Yeah, it is. Especially if you're not like, I am a very thoughtful person, but I'm not sure I'm a very introspective person, you know, in terms of like understanding, the motivations and emotions behind my own actions is much well, and I think it's more difficult for anybody, everybody then, then seeing it in other people, right.

[00:51:23] Because we always have thoughts when it comes to our own issues. Um, and it can be a really helpful tool when it comes to. Figuring out what those blind spots are, and even beyond your own type. I mean, I'm, my type was very kind of obvious right away, but. Everybody has a little bit of every type in them.

[00:51:41] And you know, there's things that I've learned, I've learned a lot from reading about type one actually, because I think that there's still some type one tendencies in there. I've worried a lot about reading about type three, um, and type eight, um, all of those things because we're just, uh, we're a, we're made up of a lot of different parts and yes, the [00:52:00] five is like my primary and.

[00:52:02] You know, that's, that's home base. That's where I find my biggest insecurities. You can learn from reading about any type. Really.

[00:52:09] Tori: [00:52:09] Yeah. I think I like, it's kind of like when I want the podcast to be like, it talks about. The crap parts, but also talks about like what you're good at, like how to get to pass those, right?

[00:52:19] Like for a bunch of different types and a bunch of different situations. Like, Hey, you might be dealing with this problem. Like these are the kinds of things you should work on to overcome it. Like, okay, this is amazing. You know? I like at all personality test be this kind of like actionable, you know?

[00:52:35] Kate: [00:52:35] Yeah. It is so actionable.

My ulterior motive for starting this podcast

[00:52:39] Tori: [00:52:39] Uh, that is literally probably one of the reasons that I started this podcast specifically because it was like, you're not going to be excited about anything if you don't think it's going to bring good into the world. And it was like, well, I'm just going to own that. I'm not going to do it if I don't think it's going to be useful.

[00:52:55] Like I want to make something they, even if somebody never goes to my website, they never figured out who [00:53:00] I am. Like they never care about buying anything from me. They still found it useful and like just owning out like. I don't need to make everything be only about money, like it's okay to just want to do good, like you know.

[00:53:15] Kate: [00:53:15] And sometimes doing that has an unexpected benefit that you might not know.

[00:53:20] Tori: [00:53:20] Well, networking, I mean, that's what I'm hoping it'll be like just people find out about me. Like that's the goal. I'll talk to people, have cool conversations and more people know who I am. Wondering what the ulterior motive was like.

[00:53:36] That's it. So, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I do think they're like trying to figure out, like, we've talked about this before, like, where's the line with woo, right? Like, right. It's just total crap. And what is just like, Oh, this is useful. Like,

[00:53:51] Kate: [00:53:51] wow, man. I think, um, I mean, to a certain extent, I, I'm a little bit more loose about this in my, in my personal life, but I think to a certain [00:54:00] extent, it's.

[00:54:00] Is there any evidence to support what this person is trying to say? And we know from tons of research that. Our emotions are the way that we talk to ourselves. The way that we see ourselves, how we value ourselves has a direct psychological and physical impact on our bodies, on our businesses, on our relationships.

[00:54:21] And you know, if, if we don't value ourselves at a fundamental level, we're going to have difficulty succeeding. If we don't believe that we can do it. Um, we're going to have difficulty succeeding. It doesn't mean that you can think yourself into succeeding. It just means that if you believe you can't do it, that's going to be a block.

Hobbies

[00:54:38] Tori: [00:54:38] So, um, Ooh. Here's one. What about hobbies? Do you have any hobbies? Uh,

[00:54:47] Kate: [00:54:47] no. I am hobby lists. I am a workaholic.

[00:54:52] Tori: [00:54:52] I do

[00:54:52] Kate: [00:54:52] have some hobbies, but I wouldn't like. I don't go bowling on weekends or I know, you [00:55:00] know, like things like that. I, I love reading. I  you know, I've been writing about books for 10 years. Um, I, I, I just love to learn. I think that's my big thing. And so, um, in terms of my hobbies, you know, I try and I fail.

[00:55:17] Sometimes I fail a lot. I try to make time to read. Mmm. Every week, especially on weekends when I'm trying not to work. Um, um, I collect books. I, you know, I just like to. Immerse myself in something that takes me beyond my small corner of the world and my small experience, whether that's a novel or a read, more nonfiction than I read fiction.

[00:55:45] Um, I just, I just like to learn. I like, I like my. Understanding of the world to be expanded. And you know, for a lot of people that's travel. Um, for a lot of people that's cultural activities, like going to the theater or [00:56:00] whatever. For me, it's reading. I think that there's something to be said for, you know, you can, you can go anywhere right in your armchair when you, when you have a book with you.

[00:56:10] so that's my big thing. Um. I, you know, I do like Netflix also. Who doesn't? ,but you know, in terms of like, hobbies, we're actually go out and like do things, not so much. I'm more of a homebody. Access the world through the pages of a book kind of person.

[00:56:30] Tori: [00:56:30] Definitely identify with that. I'm a bookworm as well, like it was something that I think I kind of lost in the beginning of my business.

[00:56:38] Like I wanted, every book that I was reading was supposed to be about that. Like, I feel bad for just reading, like, you know, like I have a total guilty pleasure for just like terrible young adult novels. Like, you know, like. That's

[00:56:50] Kate: [00:56:50] great though. That's great. Because it takes you beyond yourself, right. It takes you beyond your own thing.

[00:56:57] Tori: [00:56:57] Outside my own world,

Business Books

[00:56:59] Kate: [00:56:59] I don't [00:57:00] read that many business books. Yeah. Honestly, like I maybe read at most two a year. Um, and I know that's like. Not popular.

[00:57:12] Tori: [00:57:12] I feel like there's so many people out there though who like talk about and brag about the number of books that they read, but it's like, well, how much of it did you do?

[00:57:18] Like, do you know, like business books aren't about just learning for the most part. Like there's stuff you're supposed to be doing and like. You can only do so much.

[00:57:27] Kate: [00:57:27] Well, and that's part of the reason why I don't read that many business books, because I don't, I don't feel like I can implement fully. The strategies have more than one or two business books a year.

[00:57:37] Yeah. You know, when it comes, that's where I read, you know. History books or theories about the world or philosophy, like that's not something you have to implement. It's just an idea concert that you can hold in your head. And that's partially why I'm so drawn to that is because I don't have to do anything.

[00:57:53] It's just purely for my own enrichment. And there's something beautiful about

[00:57:57] Tori: [00:57:57] that.

Kate’s Tips

[00:57:57] So Kate, pretend we aren't [00:58:00] at happy hour and we've just met new people who are listening right now. What tips do you have for other business owners.

[00:58:10] Kate: [00:58:10] So my number one tip is to have a really strong SEO strategy. SEO is one of the most sustainable sources of traffic that you can have for your business over social media. It's just, it's going to help you more in the long run. So one of the most. One of the best SEO tips that I have, um, that I think feel like it's very overlooked, is having a backlink building strategy.

[00:58:34] So, um, everything that you do to optimize your own website is great, but if you don't have links coming in from other websites, Google is not going to see you as an authority figure. So writing guest posts, um, listing yourself in professional databases, um. Whether they're in your industry or local databases.

[00:58:53] I'm getting a Google my business page. Um, it's all of those things are going to help you rank higher in the search [00:59:00] engines

[00:59:00] Tori: [00:59:00] as a result. And those are all things that happen off of your actual website right off of your

[00:59:05] Kate: [00:59:05] actual website. Yes.

[00:59:07]most, one of the most important things you can do to protect your business is to backup your data. I feel like a lot of people know that this is important, but they don't actually do it.

[00:59:18] So if you're hearing this, uh, consider this like a kick in the pants to actually do it. Mmm. So you can back up your data in two ways. You can back it up in the cloud or you can back it up on a physical hard drive. And I actually recommend doing both because, um, you know, sometimes things go wrong with your cloud backup service or a hard drive can break down.

[00:59:38] so it's always good to have more than one copy of your data. Um, I use backways for cloud backup.  it basically just makes a mirror copy of what's on your computer. It's secure and it. It just runs in the background so you don't have to think about it.  and then I use also a physical hard drive. I use WDS my passport for Mac.

[00:59:57] There are other versions of it if you don't have a Mac. [01:00:00]  but it's, it's a very small, relatively inexpensive hard drive that you can just pop in a drawer. And I do backups on that. Probably not as often as I should, but periodically, like maybe once a month.  is a good frequency just to have an extra copy of the most important files on your computer.

[01:00:18] Tori: [01:00:18] I love it.

[01:00:19] So what's another tool.

[01:00:21] Kate: [01:00:21] One of my all time favorite tools is acuity scheduling, which totally automates the process of booking client calls, whether they're paid or free discovery calls. Um, you can, you can automate the booking of, um, group classes. You can sell packages. It's a really, really robust scheduling tool and you can set your availability.

[01:00:43] So once you set it, you can just forget it. You don't have to constantly be managing your calendar or doing this. You know, back and forth annual thing real like what about this time and worrying about time zone conversions and things like that. It is, it has saved me so much time in my business and it's really [01:01:00] increased the number of discovery calls that I get also because it's easier for clients to book.

[01:01:05] Um, so yeah, and I actually offer acuity scheduling setup, um, also to clients. It's. Pretty easy to set up, but sometimes people just need a little bit of extra help if they're not tech savvy. Um, and I have one client, for example, who, you know, it's constantly adding new group classes with, you know, complex APR integrations and things like that.

[01:01:25] And, um, that's the other thing about acuity. It has amazing integrations. You can do pretty much anything with it. Um, and so I managed that for her. Um, but there's so much that you could do with it and it's really one of the best time-saving tools that I can recommend.

Where you can find Kate Scott

[01:01:40]Tori: [01:01:40] so now that we have finished our conversation, why don't you tell our listeners a little bit more about your business, what you're up to and where they can find you online.

[01:01:52] Kate: [01:01:52] So you can find me@katescott.co.

[01:01:54] that's Kate Scott. Dot. C O not.com. and. Basically, I offer three [01:02:00] primary services to people who need help with their website. I offer a full web design, custom web design on the Squarespace platform. I offer one hour strategy sessions. These are great if you're DIY in your website, but you need a little extra professional help with your strategy layout.

[01:02:15] SEO, any of that, I, I help with all of that.  and I also offer acuity scheduling set up. And most business owners don't need that, but if you have complex integrations through acuity or as AP or that you want to set up, I can help with that.  I offered to acuity setting, set up packages. And coming soon, I'm going to be releasing, hopefully to a Squarespace templates, pre-made Squarespace

[01:02:39] Tori: [01:02:39] templates,

[01:02:40] Kate: [01:02:40] spraying.

[01:02:41] It's very exciting, and these are different than any Squarespace templates that I know of that are out there right now. Um, they're very robust. They come with two sales pages, each on one for services, one for courses. They're great for service providers, course creators, e-commerce. People, basically, they cover all of the bases [01:03:00] in one very robust.

[01:03:02] So, and I'm planning to build the amount of 7.1 so if you're excited about,

[01:03:07] Tori: [01:03:07] Hey,

[01:03:09] Kate: [01:03:09] that's going to be coming this spring, I

[01:03:11] Tori: [01:03:11] love it. That's awesome.

[01:03:13] I'm so okay. I can do that. Okay. Kate. Again, Kate, thank you so much for joining me today. It has been an adventure.

[01:03:25] Uh, I appreciate you be the Guinea pig for our very first guest episode. Like you have been amazing, and I've actually learned things, even though these are topics that we have already talked about. So I love it. Like I love that you're a wealth of knowledge, so thank you for sharing.

[01:03:40] Kate: [01:03:40] Well, thank you so much for having me.

[01:03:42] I love talking to you and it's always fun to throw some ideas around with you.

[01:03:46] Tori: [01:03:46] Yeah. And in case listeners that, are anybody there, this took us three, almost three and a half hours.

[01:03:56] We're done except for the intro that I still need to do, but [01:04:00] we'll get there. So.

[01:04:02]okay, so last question. Are you wearing pants right now?

[01:04:09] Kate: [01:04:09] I am wearing pants, but I am wearing sweatpants that I would never wear outdoors. Does that count?

[01:04:15] Tori: [01:04:15] I think we decided earlier. No, but now I'm thinking I was being a little critical and probably yes,

[01:04:23] Kate: [01:04:23] and then, but like I wouldn't go to the store in them.

[01:04:25]

[01:04:25]

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